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Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

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Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#121

Post by ceejayoz »

kitteh wrote: post #114
ceejayoz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which would suggest that if you need to be vectored to a runway, the aircraft can negotiate that with ATC automatically (and perhaps ATC can advise which is the most appropriate diversion?) I strongly suspect it just announces itself. "N123FOO DECLARING EMERGENCY; PILOT INCAPACITATED, AUTOLAND ENGAGED; CLEAR RUNWAY 21L; 12 MILES OUT" sort of stuff.

Curious if it xmits that on guard or tries to tune to ctaf and do it.

I'd imagine given the airport database that it's capable of calling the right frequency. Might do both.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#122

Post by ScottBurson »

throw0101a wrote: post #35
eternalny1 wrote: post #24

This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when: There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach" There is a 40-knot crosswind You have an engine out That's just a few, I'm a comme…

Thunderstorm: it can use weather broadcast over ADS-In UAT. Mentioned in the AVweb report. Closure: certainly a problem. Mountain: can use worldwide topographic information in its database to route around. See AVweb Crosswind: mentions getting local weather. Engine: Autland cannot help. But on the Cirrus you'd pull the CAPS cord and float down.

For us non-pilots: what is CAPS?

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#123

Post by rexaliquid »

ScottBurson wrote: post #122
throw0101a wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thunderstorm: it can use weather broadcast over ADS-In UAT. Mentioned in the AVweb report. Closure: certainly a problem. Mountain: can use worldwide topographic information in its database to route around. See AVweb Crosswind: mentions getting local weather. Engine: Autland cannot help. But on the Cirrus you'd pull the CAPS cord and float down.

For us non-pilots: what is CAPS?

Cirrus Airframe Parachute System - a whole aircraft emergency parachute

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#124

Post by throw0101a »

ScottBurson wrote: post #122
throw0101a wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thunderstorm: it can use weather broadcast over ADS-In UAT. Mentioned in the AVweb report. Closure: certainly a problem. Mountain: can use worldwide topographic information in its database to route around. See AVweb Crosswind: mentions getting local weather. Engine: Autland cannot help. But on the Cirrus you'd pull the CAPS cord and float down.

For us non-pilots: what is CAPS?

It's not a US/non-US thing, it's a Cirrus thing: a parachute.

* https://cirrusaircraft.com/totalsafety/

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#125

Post by throw0101a »

pc86 wrote: post #116
throw0101a wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thunderstorm: it can use weather broadcast over ADS-In UAT. Mentioned in the AVweb report. Closure: certainly a problem. Mountain: can use worldwide topographic information in its database to route around. See AVweb Crosswind: mentions getting local weather. Engine: Autland cannot help. But on the Cirrus you'd pull the CAPS cord and float down.

CAPS is not supposed to be used because you have an engine out under most circumstances - you are perfectly capable of dead-sticking a Cirrus onto a runway just like any other small GA plane. And it's not a gentle float, it's ~1700fpm or about 20mph, straight down. The airframe and seats absorb a chunk of it but compared to a 500-700fpm descent on an engine-out landing, pulling CAPS because your engine dies with any…

Nope:

> > There are very few emergencies (in my opinion) in which parachute deployment would be the appropriate response unless there was an extremely unfortunate set of circumstances which led to the airplane being unable to fly or glide (like a wing snapping off)

> I've been a Cirrus instructor for 15 years. This attitude is completely wrong and is exactly what has led more people to be killed than needed to be, especially when Cirruses first came to the market and the chute was a new thing in production aircraft. We TEACH, intentionally, people to ask FIRST, "do I need to use the chute," and the answer is never "no." It's either, "Yes," or "not yet."

> There have been pilots - plenty of them - that had every opportunity to use the chute but kept gliding, or spinning, or whatever, and now they and their passengers are dead.

[...]

> Lose the engine - most of the time, pull the chute. Yes, even better than landing in a nice open field. The chute works. If I screw up the landing, or the field has ditches, furrows, irrigation, cows, power lines, fences, rocks, or who knows what else, I might just be screwed setting a plane down at 65-70kts. But not if I float down into it protected by my roll cage, high-g seats, air bags, etc.

[...]

* https://old.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/dp61qo#f5trzyz

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#126

Post by Scoundreller »

guidoism wrote: post #119
pc86 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CAPS is not supposed to be used because you have an engine out under most circumstances - you are perfectly capable of dead-sticking a Cirrus onto a runway just like any other small GA plane. And it's not a gentle float, it's ~1700fpm or about 20mph, straight down. The airframe and seats absorb a chunk of it but compared to a 500-700fpm descent on an engine-out landing, pulling CAPS because your engine dies with any…

The insurance companies apparently want pilots to pull the CAPS rather than try to dead stick it. That’s what I was told when I got checked out in the SR22 by the flight school. They drilled it into me. What happens when blah blah blah? Pull the CAPS. That was the answer to everything.

CAPS sounds great over open water or desert, but not so great over a populated area.

At least a non-pilot co-passenger might want to try their luck gliding to open area and then pulling it.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#127

Post by asdfadsfgfdda »

code4tee wrote: post #95

This is impressive. Use case is for an incapacitated pilot. It won’t work well or at all if the aircraft itself is having issues or in other emergency scenarios. As such it doesn’t replace the need for qualified pilots at the controls.

I suspect they are marketing this for incapacitated pilots (an extremely rare situation), but it also seems like an alternative for overwhelmed pilots. They don't want to call their potential customers idiots, but this is another feature to help pilots avoid loss of control.

And I definitely see a future version that could handle engine failures. If you can count on auto land to flawlessly glide to the nearest airport, who needs a twin engine airplane? Single engine airplanes are significantly cheaper to operate than twins.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#128

Post by DuskStar »

Scoundreller wrote: post #126
guidoism wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The insurance companies apparently want pilots to pull the CAPS rather than try to dead stick it. That’s what I was told when I got checked out in the SR22 by the flight school. They drilled it into me. What happens when blah blah blah? Pull the CAPS. That was the answer to everything.

CAPS sounds great over open water or desert, but not so great over a populated area. At least a non-pilot co-passenger might want to try their luck gliding to open area and then pulling it.

A 20mph vertical impact into someone's roof really isn't the worst of outcomes.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#129

Post by __m »

eternalny1 wrote: post #24

This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when: There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach" There is a 40-knot crosswind You have an engine out That's just a few, I'm a comme…

Well the plane crashes i suppose

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#130

Post by base698 »

throw0101a wrote: post #113
base698 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Garmin 530 and it's IFR rated, most of the 430s are too and relatively common in single engine planes. The ADS mandate was more for transponders. It does seem like a lot of airports have RNAV only and if they have an ILS they also have an RNAV.

I was under the impression that more that just having a magic box was needed for a plane to be IFR-rated.

The GPS has to be rated, there are also requirements for the plane to fly IFR in 91.205: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.205

One mnenonic is GRABCARD

Generator Radios Attitude indicator Ball Clock Adjustable altimeter Rate of turn indicator Directional gyro

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