Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

piper.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 237 posts

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#111

Post by jacquesm »

usrusr wrote: post #103
tialaramex wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a truck (or a train) can't see what to do on its own, it can brake to a full stop and remain motionless until a human intervenes. Cell network crashed? Mountain in the way of the transmitter? Somebody stepped on the cable? Whatever it is, most problems will be averted by just always braking to a halt and waiting. This is not an option in a plane. If it was, this technology wouldn't be needed - if the pilot is in…

A plane entering an ad-hoc holding circle is much less of a risk to its peers than a ground vehicle coming to a stop on the open road.

That highly depends on where that circle is.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#112

Post by l33tman »

usrusr wrote: post #82
tim333 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engine failure on takeoff is tricky to deal with. See Sullenberger landing on the Hudson for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549

Isn't that a situation where a machine would excel? One challenge is the abundance of decisions with only one non-deadly option, the other challenge is lack of time. The first challenge is solved by well-defined decision trees and mental checklists, but those make the second challenge harder. Computers don't need to balance between checklist thoroughness and decision latency, they can look at all the data they have i…

Yes I agree.. As long as the system can simulate the degraded plane, and is fast enough, it can brute force through a huge number of decision trees and scenarios in milliseconds to find the optimal. A human would do something similar but will prune the tree much more heavily than the computer as the human is slow. This is analogous to any chess engine, the difference is that the plane flight requires a much more difficult simulation scenario compared to a chess board. The system has to understand or at least measure what has degraded as well which might be difficult.

(I don't mean to make it sound as I think it's easy to solve, but the basic strategy to solving it is simple :)

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#113

Post by throw0101a »

base698 wrote: post #55
throw0101a wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ran across a report somewhere that more airports (in the US) now have RNAV approaches than ILS ones. ILS equipment isn't cheap, and so many places don't have it. But a lot of folks now have GPS, especially because of the ADS mandate, and so while most probably aren't IFR-rated, I'm guessing if you're flying a turboprop or Cirrus jet, they probably are.

I have a Garmin 530 and it's IFR rated, most of the 430s are too and relatively common in single engine planes. The ADS mandate was more for transponders. It does seem like a lot of airports have RNAV only and if they have an ILS they also have an RNAV.

I was under the impression that more that just having a magic box was needed for a plane to be IFR-rated.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#114

Post by kitteh »

ceejayoz wrote: post #60
joshvm wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> During all phases of flight it communicates with passengers and appropriate air traffic control facilities regarding the new flight plan route and estimated time until landing. Which would suggest that if you need to be vectored to a runway, the aircraft can negotiate that with ATC automatically (and perhaps ATC can advise which is the most appropriate diversion?) This in the situation where the pilot is incapacita…

> Which would suggest that if you need to be vectored to a runway, the aircraft can negotiate that with ATC automatically (and perhaps ATC can advise which is the most appropriate diversion?) I strongly suspect it just announces itself. "N123FOO DECLARING EMERGENCY; PILOT INCAPACITATED, AUTOLAND ENGAGED; CLEAR RUNWAY 21L; 12 MILES OUT" sort of stuff.

Curious if it xmits that on guard or tries to tune to ctaf and do it.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#116

Post by pc86 »

throw0101a wrote: post #35
eternalny1 wrote: post #24

This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when: There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach" There is a 40-knot crosswind You have an engine out That's just a few, I'm a comme…

Thunderstorm: it can use weather broadcast over ADS-In UAT. Mentioned in the AVweb report. Closure: certainly a problem. Mountain: can use worldwide topographic information in its database to route around. See AVweb Crosswind: mentions getting local weather. Engine: Autland cannot help. But on the Cirrus you'd pull the CAPS cord and float down.

CAPS is not supposed to be used because you have an engine out under most circumstances - you are perfectly capable of dead-sticking a Cirrus onto a runway just like any other small GA plane. And it's not a gentle float, it's ~1700fpm or about 20mph, straight down. The airframe and seats absorb a chunk of it but compared to a 500-700fpm descent on an engine-out landing, pulling CAPS because your engine dies with any sufficient landing area in range (including open fields) will rightfully earn you quite a bit of ridicule.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#119

Post by guidoism »

pc86 wrote: post #116
throw0101a wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thunderstorm: it can use weather broadcast over ADS-In UAT. Mentioned in the AVweb report. Closure: certainly a problem. Mountain: can use worldwide topographic information in its database to route around. See AVweb Crosswind: mentions getting local weather. Engine: Autland cannot help. But on the Cirrus you'd pull the CAPS cord and float down.

CAPS is not supposed to be used because you have an engine out under most circumstances - you are perfectly capable of dead-sticking a Cirrus onto a runway just like any other small GA plane. And it's not a gentle float, it's ~1700fpm or about 20mph, straight down. The airframe and seats absorb a chunk of it but compared to a 500-700fpm descent on an engine-out landing, pulling CAPS because your engine dies with any…

The insurance companies apparently want pilots to pull the CAPS rather than try to dead stick it. That’s what I was told when I got checked out in the SR22 by the flight school. They drilled it into me. What happens when blah blah blah? Pull the CAPS. That was the answer to everything.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#120

Post by rexaliquid »

Stevvo wrote: post #34

Title is innaccurate, as the m600 is not the first, it will be simultaneously made available accross several different aircraft with Garmin avionics. The system can be also be retrofitted in older aircraft.

Aircraft still have to certify the feature, now that it exists. The title is accurate in that the m600 will be the first to certify with Autoland. Other aircraft will follow.
Post reply on HN