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Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background

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Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background

#21

Post by codingdave »

shpongled wrote: post #8

I'm in my 5th year of a chemical biology PhD and I'm looking to potentially move into computer science/data science (been programming for 15 years) after I graduate. Maybe we can just switch? I work with CRISPR for my project. In all seriousness, you are going to need a PhD if you want to truly understand all of the background of the field. Human biology/biochemistry is just about the most complex thing humans have e…

> you are going to need a PhD if you want to truly understand all of the background of the field

Is that the need, though? Few SaaS CEOs truly understand all the background of computer science. They do understand the problem space, but they leave it to the experts in the organization to get into the details of applying computer science to the problem.

Is biology different, where the level of expertise needs to be at a more detailed level in order to lead an organization?

Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background

#22

Post by baron_harkonnen »

Right now I know a ridiculous amount of people with bio phds from top tier schools that are trying to make it as data scientists. I don't think there is a bio revolution like the software revolution that is happening quite yet.

I know quite a few bio/chem people working in pharma as well. That industry is booming but mostly for the people that own pharmaceutical companies not their employees. There's a reason that most biologists from good school would rather be bad data scientist that good lab workers in pharma/bio tech. The pay is much worse and pharma/bio tech don't treat there employees nearly as well as big tech companies do.

All of the interesting jobs around that space are still largely tech jobs.

Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background

#23

Post by Odenwaelder »

codingdave wrote: post #21
shpongled wrote: post #8

I'm in my 5th year of a chemical biology PhD and I'm looking to potentially move into computer science/data science (been programming for 15 years) after I graduate. Maybe we can just switch? I work with CRISPR for my project. In all seriousness, you are going to need a PhD if you want to truly understand all of the background of the field. Human biology/biochemistry is just about the most complex thing humans have e…

> you are going to need a PhD if you want to truly understand all of the background of the field Is that the need, though? Few SaaS CEOs truly understand all the background of computer science. They do understand the problem space, but they leave it to the experts in the organization to get into the details of applying computer science to the problem. Is biology different, where the level of expertise needs to be at…

In biology, the problem space is extremely vast and very hard to understand. I have a PhD in biology and find computer science relatively logical and simple. You can just look things up. Looking things up for a specific topic is not even easy in biology.

Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background

#24

Post by notus »

codingdave wrote: post #21
shpongled wrote: post #8

I'm in my 5th year of a chemical biology PhD and I'm looking to potentially move into computer science/data science (been programming for 15 years) after I graduate. Maybe we can just switch? I work with CRISPR for my project. In all seriousness, you are going to need a PhD if you want to truly understand all of the background of the field. Human biology/biochemistry is just about the most complex thing humans have e…

> you are going to need a PhD if you want to truly understand all of the background of the field Is that the need, though? Few SaaS CEOs truly understand all the background of computer science. They do understand the problem space, but they leave it to the experts in the organization to get into the details of applying computer science to the problem. Is biology different, where the level of expertise needs to be at…

There are plenty of executives running biotech companies who have barely any biology expertise. Pretty much everything they know is contained to their product and its competitors. There are PHD's and MD's in SV who basically specialize in working as consultants for these types of products and back up their potential. You see it all the time with health startups when they have a medical advisor or something to that effect.

Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background

#25

Post by notus »

el_cujo wrote: post #15
tomp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain your reasoning behind need a PhD ? It makes sense to me why you should learn a lot to understand a complex field, but I fail to see why you should also spend a few years researching a very narrow subfield... wouldn't it be better to be a generalist and be able to apply your knowledge widely, as opposed to only understanding a tiny sliver of the whole field?

Yeah I'm not sure I agree you need a full-blown PhD just to understand this stuff. Some-hands on work, definitely. I would say that you need a PhD to be taken seriously as a leader on the science-side of a biotech company though.

You don't need a PhD to find market fits for these types of products. They are self aggrandizing.

Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background

#26

Post by shpongled »

codingdave wrote: post #21
shpongled wrote: post #8

I'm in my 5th year of a chemical biology PhD and I'm looking to potentially move into computer science/data science (been programming for 15 years) after I graduate. Maybe we can just switch? I work with CRISPR for my project. In all seriousness, you are going to need a PhD if you want to truly understand all of the background of the field. Human biology/biochemistry is just about the most complex thing humans have e…

> you are going to need a PhD if you want to truly understand all of the background of the field Is that the need, though? Few SaaS CEOs truly understand all the background of computer science. They do understand the problem space, but they leave it to the experts in the organization to get into the details of applying computer science to the problem. Is biology different, where the level of expertise needs to be at…

The key distinction here is starting a company vs leading a company. To just walk in and lead an established company - you'd be fine with a better than average understanding, as long as you trust the experts in your company to do what is right.

To found a company? How do you know where to start? If you are hiring PhDs to come up with the idea for you, how do you if their ideas are novel or worthwhile?

Not to disparage SaaS founders, but I think it's somewhat easier to look about and say "there is no app for sending texts via REST API" and do that, than it is to look at say "no one has found a way to selectively target cancer cells for CRISPR" and then go do that.

Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background

#27

Post by tito »

Check out Benchling! YC company (S12), founded by a CS undergrad from MIT. [1] Learn more about their story. Biotech is growing so fast. There’s tons of room for scientists and non-scientists alike. Programmers have a lot to add here, even with zero bio background, the power of a fresh mind. Talk with scientists and learn what problems they have.

[1] https://www.crunchbase.com/person/sajith-wickramasekara

Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background

#28

Post by notus »

shpongled wrote: post #26
codingdave wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you are going to need a PhD if you want to truly understand all of the background of the field Is that the need, though? Few SaaS CEOs truly understand all the background of computer science. They do understand the problem space, but they leave it to the experts in the organization to get into the details of applying computer science to the problem. Is biology different, where the level of expertise needs to be at…

The key distinction here is starting a company vs leading a company. To just walk in and lead an established company - you'd be fine with a better than average understanding, as long as you trust the experts in your company to do what is right. To found a company? How do you know where to start? If you are hiring PhDs to come up with the idea for you, how do you if their ideas are novel or worthwhile? Not to disparag…

Founders generally don't start companies in vacuums. They are the result of communication with other people on the viability of ideas. They meet a subject matter expert in a field, they get to talking, they come up with an idea. The idea gets floated around to other subject matter experts. If something seems viable then prototypes are made to gauge market fit.

Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background

#29

Post by jayparth »

shpongled wrote: post #26
codingdave wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you are going to need a PhD if you want to truly understand all of the background of the field Is that the need, though? Few SaaS CEOs truly understand all the background of computer science. They do understand the problem space, but they leave it to the experts in the organization to get into the details of applying computer science to the problem. Is biology different, where the level of expertise needs to be at…

The key distinction here is starting a company vs leading a company. To just walk in and lead an established company - you'd be fine with a better than average understanding, as long as you trust the experts in your company to do what is right. To found a company? How do you know where to start? If you are hiring PhDs to come up with the idea for you, how do you if their ideas are novel or worthwhile? Not to disparag…

I think the key distinction is that there is a well-established infrastructure around software, such that the average SaaS founder (even 10 years ago) is/was not doing fundamentally new things with computers. If they were, they would probably need to understand computer science well. Take any moonshot ML company- they need quite deep technical depth and usually have a founder that has spent time in academia.

We are still at a point in Biotech where companies have to do fundamentally new things with their tech to succeed. If you were starting a company that applies CRISPR to X genetic disease, you might not need a Ph D. to start the company, because you can apply existing technology to solve that problem. But that begs the question: Why has no one else done it yet?

At the end of the day, you need a unique insight to start a large company. That means experience with either the problem space or the technology space is helpful. Not discouraging OP either, if you have a vision for what the future should look like, and can acquire talent/capital... anyone can start a massive company. So OP should try to acquire that vision.

Re: Ask HN: Getting started in biology with a software background

#30

Post by tomp »

shpongled wrote: post #17
tomp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain your reasoning behind need a PhD ? It makes sense to me why you should learn a lot to understand a complex field, but I fail to see why you should also spend a few years researching a very narrow subfield... wouldn't it be better to be a generalist and be able to apply your knowledge widely, as opposed to only understanding a tiny sliver of the whole field?

Presumably, this hypothetical biotech startup is going to be focused on some narrow niche of CRISPR technology, so being a specialist is exactly what's required in my mind. If the OP just wants to learn about CRISPR he could probably do a masters or even a year or two of self study. I find it very unlikely that they would be able to come up with something novel and marketable without even more hands on time.

But if PhD is basically learning followed by research, you could also just do a masters / learning followed by research at a company (directly relevant to what the company is doing)?
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