Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says • Hacker News Board

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#121

Post by zepto » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 1:48 PM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #108

belenos46 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That is incorrect. Even fully automatic long-guns (think AK47, AR-15 with a full-auto mod) can be owned legally after paying for the license with the ATF.

Thank you for the correction. Kind of shocked though.

It’s only half true. New transferable fully automatic weapons have been illegal since 1986.

The few that are out there are collectors items costing upwards of $20,000.

So while it’s tecnichally true that if you live in a state where they have not been banned outright you can legally buy a fully automatic assault rifle in the US, they are extremely rare and expensive.

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#122

Post by claudeganon » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 1:51 PM UTC

telesilla wrote: post #105

I read this yesterday, it seems apt: https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/film/paw-patrol-mighty-pu... The central task of the police, according to classical Foucauldian analysis, has been to thwart and foil the possibility of revolution, the possibility of transgressing the order of capital: “For the bourgeoisie the main danger against which it had to be protected, that which had to be avoided at all costs, was armed…

What’s strange to me about America is that if you watch or read crime fiction, it almost always agrees with the Foucaldian analysis. That the police exist to protect the wealthy and that the wealthy themselves are behind most criminal enterprises is beyond a cliche in this genre.

But at the same time, if you ask the average “middle class” homeowner (probably the primary consumer of this genre) about their perception of police or something like BLM, they’ll respond with the most naive platitudes and defenses.

I understand that identification with and defense of the ruling class is central to contemporary American culture, but I find this constant, screeching dissonance quite fascinating.

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#123

Post by DoctorOetker » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 1:53 PM UTC

donatj wrote: post #93

Over two belts stolen from Walmart!? I’d pay for them just to get the police to not pursue.

the idea would be that the police contact the owner of the building before raiding it, asking if he would be willing to cover for the stolen goods?

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#124

Post by JoeAltmaier » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:00 PM UTC

claudeganon wrote: post #122

telesilla wrote: post #105

I read this yesterday, it seems apt: https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/film/paw-patrol-mighty-pu... The central task of the police, according to classical Foucauldian analysis, has been to thwart and foil the possibility of revolution, the possibility of transgressing the order of capital: “For the bourgeoisie the main danger against which it had to be protected, that which had to be avoided at all costs, was armed…

What’s strange to me about America is that if you watch or read crime fiction, it almost always agrees with the Foucaldian analysis. That the police exist to protect the wealthy and that the wealthy themselves are behind most criminal enterprises is beyond a cliche in this genre. But at the same time, if you ask the average “middle class” homeowner (probably the primary consumer of this genre) about their perception…

Crime fiction is not any kind of a measure of truth in America. It's naïve to even suggest.

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#125

Post by ameister14 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

merpnderp wrote: post #82

nvahalik wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do they deserve massive power? They don't. We've given it to them willingly. It has been granted to them by every person who has chosen to "outsource" dealing with their problems to the police. Loud neighbor? Call the cops. Something doesn't look right at the house down the street? Call the cops. Someone breaking into your home? Call the cops. As a society, many, many of us have forgotten how (or even why) we o…

Maybe because we want justice and not just whomever is more willing to escalate violence to win. Without the cops, any criminal interaction just becomes who’s willing to shoot first. You speak of loud neighbors? In my town a guy was just murdered a few weeks ago over a long running feud about a loud dog. The two homeowners had tried to settle it many times by fighting until one brought a gun.

Except that when you call the cops, you are escalating the situation to include a potentially violent actor. You might want justice, but most people just want help. Multiple times I can name the cops have been called to help and have instead shot innocent people.

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#126

Post by xkcd-sucks » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #124

claudeganon wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s strange to me about America is that if you watch or read crime fiction, it almost always agrees with the Foucaldian analysis. That the police exist to protect the wealthy and that the wealthy themselves are behind most criminal enterprises is beyond a cliche in this genre. But at the same time, if you ask the average “middle class” homeowner (probably the primary consumer of this genre) about their perception…

Crime fiction is not any kind of a measure of truth in America. It's naïve to even suggest.

Crime fiction and television strongly informs the self-image of people working in law enforcement though

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#127

Post by JoeAltmaier » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:08 PM UTC

Surely a strange case of overreaction and resultant destructions. But lets not draw enormous conclusions on 'some guys in Denver" or whatever.

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#128

Post by seamyb88 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

Being from N. Ireland, and seeing as US cultural imperialism reaches far and I know about all your stuff, police human rights abuse comes from above. We had the brutal RUC until the Good Friday Agreement. Now the police are completely reformed. Sort out the political side and the human rights abusers will no longer be able to work under the conditions.

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#129

Post by dzamie » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

dls2016 wrote: post #92

LorenPechtel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police aren't interested in investigating low-value cases. However, with a suspect in sight they'll go after them even if it's low-value.

Then why don't they investigate wage theft? Googling around suggests that the cost to the US economy is about the same as shoplifting (and I'm guessing individual cases could be much higher value than shoplifting). When was the last time a battering ram was used in pursuit of a wage thief? Or when was one even arrested? To answer my own questions, police do not care so much about the "value" of the target. Their beha…

Wage thieves don't flee. There's no adrenaline-pumping chase scene, nothing to tunnel-vision. It's also much harder to see on patrol.

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#130

Post by thomascgalvin » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

eloff wrote: post #98

epistasis wrote: post #7

> Authorities say the suspect stole two belts and a shirt from a Walmart. After he left the store, police say, he broke into Lech's house for protection and was firing at officers with a handgun. Eventually, SWAT officers entered the home and apprehended him. ... > The court noted that if police officers "willfully or wantonly" destroy property, they can be sued in a civil tort case. Lech tried to pursue that legal a…

That doesn't seem out of control. This man was firing at police. That warrants a SWAT response. You've got a very high risk of officers getting killed. What is fucked up is that there's no law that requires the government to compensate the homeowner.

> This man was firing at police. That warrants a SWAT response.

Absolutely. And there is no reason they couldn't have cut utilities to the property, set up a perimeter, and waited him out.

One of the biggest problems with SWAT teams today is that they seem to feel that they have failed if they don't go in all-a-Rambo. Protocol should be just the opposite: the most successful missions are the ones where a cop never has to fire a gun.