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Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

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Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#31

Post by nabla9 »

eternalny1 wrote: post #24

This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when: There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach" There is a 40-knot crosswind You have an engine out That's just a few, I'm a comme…

It's to be used only in the event that the pilot is incapacitated.

Because it's an emergency feature engaged by a passenger or automatically, it probably can't manage all complex situations. It may be just good weather emergency landing. Check fuel and wind, steer to nearest emergency airport and land. Best effort is better than no effort and dying.

> There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach"

I think it can land only to those airports that are it's database with landing approaches programmed it.

Cruise missiles have had similar technology for a long time.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#32

Post by stanski »

eternalny1 wrote: post #24

This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when: There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach" There is a 40-knot crosswind You have an engine out That's just a few, I'm a comme…

The marketing material suggests that weather and runway conditions are taken into account when selecting a landing site. So I would assume the answer to all of those is that it won't pick that runway.

And if the aircraft is low on fuel or isn't making enough power to make that runway... Well, the usual happens - a forced landing, aka a crash landing.

I don't think this is meant to be used as a cop-out by the pilot. "My engine quit! You deal with this, computer!"

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#35

Post by throw0101a »

eternalny1 wrote: post #24

This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when: There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach" There is a 40-knot crosswind You have an engine out That's just a few, I'm a comme…

Thunderstorm: it can use weather broadcast over ADS-In UAT. Mentioned in the AVweb report.

Closure: certainly a problem.

Mountain: can use worldwide topographic information in its database to route around. See AVweb

Crosswind: mentions getting local weather.

Engine: Autland cannot help. But on the Cirrus you'd pull the CAPS cord and float down.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#36

Post by nabla9 »

throw0101a wrote: post #28
nabla9 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CAT II/III can land with limited visibility. CAT IIIc is interesting because there is no decision height and no runway visual range limitation. Pilots can approach and land completely blind without flying with the stick at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gthcuZV8agI Big airports with CAT IIIc can stay open for CAT IIIc available aircraft in all visibility conditions.

And then you have to taxi in that pea soup. :)

I think they send somebody with light to help you if you get lost.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#37

Post by campfireveteran »

throw0101a wrote: post #5

This is a feature of the Garmin G3000: * https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/garmin-announces-emergen... * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ruFmgTpqA * https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/general-aviation/201... Also Cirrus: * https://cirrusaircraft.com/totalsafety/#safereturn * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiGkzgfR_c0

YT urls can be shortened like this:

https://youtu.be/d-ruFmgTpqA

^ I saw this in my feed before this HN article.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#38

Post by tialaramex »

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #22

The tech is still interesting, even if similar things that are used even in non-emergency scenarios have existed in large jets for a few decades. The one thing I don't understand is if it always just relies on WAAS and GPS no matter what, or, if depending on the runway it chooses to land, it may use something like an ILS.

It won't try to do ILS. I think the issue is that where GPS is available it can definitely put that plane down. Maybe it's not the world's greatest landing due to GPS inaccuracy, not right on the centre line, tries to put the gear through the floor - maybe the airframe ends up totalled, but if every passenger on the plane walks away it's a huge success given the pilot was incapacitated. Whereas for ILS that gets you down under clouds in mediocre weather, all lined up properly, but (except in airports with Cat III ILS) it doesn't actually put you on the ground. With a trained pilot in the seat that's not an issue, once they can see the runway they can do the rest, but this is for emergencies.

As I mentioned in a previous HN item about ILS, these autoland systems don't get you off the runway. For a grave emergency (pilot dropped dead in flight with their spouse and two kids onboard) that's forgiveable, and this mentions that the product begins broadcasting that the runway chosen is now unusable (because your plane is now parked on it) but this is why Cat IIIc doesn't magically allow JFK to function normally in a blizzard. When the pilots still can't see the runway even after their plane lands on it, that's not useful for routine passenger flights.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#39

Post by throw0101a »

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #22

The tech is still interesting, even if similar things that are used even in non-emergency scenarios have existed in large jets for a few decades. The one thing I don't understand is if it always just relies on WAAS and GPS no matter what, or, if depending on the runway it chooses to land, it may use something like an ILS.

I ran across a report somewhere that more airports (in the US) now have RNAV approaches than ILS ones. ILS equipment isn't cheap, and so many places don't have it.

But a lot of folks now have GPS, especially because of the ADS mandate, and so while most probably aren't IFR-rated, I'm guessing if you're flying a turboprop or Cirrus jet, they probably are.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#40

Post by throw0101a »

campfireveteran wrote: post #37
throw0101a wrote: post #5

This is a feature of the Garmin G3000: * https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/garmin-announces-emergen... * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ruFmgTpqA * https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/general-aviation/201... Also Cirrus: * https://cirrusaircraft.com/totalsafety/#safereturn * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiGkzgfR_c0

YT urls can be shortened like this: https://youtu.be/d-ruFmgTpqA ^ I saw this in my feed before this HN article.

Yes. Or I can just copy-paste what's in my browser's URL bar by pressing . :)
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