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Plants “panic” when it rains

phys.org

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Re: Plants “panic” when it rains

#51

Post by phkahler »

nkrisc wrote: post #47
droithomme wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He makes an interesting point. Some plants have a response to rain triggered by a hormone. To ascribe the term panic to it though might possibly be mischaracterizing the response because of the tendency to anthropomorphize.

Well we don't really have words to describe plant behavior. I agree, we can't view plants through an animalian lense, but at the same time we have to use the words we have to discuss them. I think it's fair to say plant "panic" is different than animal "panic" but from what I read, panic seems to be the closest analogue.

Is our immune response to a pathogen considered panic? I think not.

Re: Plants “panic” when it rains

#52

Post by swiley »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #37
adfkbuvasdas wrote: post #35

The instruction to pour water straight into the pot, and not onto the plant, always struck me as odd. Maybe it’s one of those small ancient nuggets of knowledge that we struggle to justify but just work. Might be a big leap still, but reactions like the one from this paper could justify not spraying water all over my house plants.

Tap water is often hard so pouring it on the plant leaves deposits behind. Another justification is that when it's sunny water droplets on leaves act as lenses and might burn the leaves. It is also known that wet leaves increase the chance of fungi, mildew, etc. taking hold on them. The article shows that plants are also well aware of that!

I was always told that the leaves just don’t need it and it gets in the way.

Re: Plants “panic” when it rains

#53

Post by jadell »

phkahler wrote: post #51
nkrisc wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we don't really have words to describe plant behavior. I agree, we can't view plants through an animalian lense, but at the same time we have to use the words we have to discuss them. I think it's fair to say plant "panic" is different than animal "panic" but from what I read, panic seems to be the closest analogue.

Is our immune response to a pathogen considered panic? I think not.

A chemical reaction that sets of a string of defensive protection reactions and behaviors? Sounds quite like panic to me. It's basically "fight or flight" for plants except plants can't do the "flight" part.

Re: Plants “panic” when it rains

#54

Post by dmurray »

dickeytk wrote: post #6
kris-s wrote: post #4

What is described in the article doesn't fit the definition of panic. I'm torn because maybe I wouldn't have read the article without the needless anthropomorphization. Plants are awesome and interesting to me because they're so planty and not animaly.

A defense mechanism that is triggered by a hormone? Doesn't seem terribly far off

Almost every biological reaction is triggered or mediated by a hormone. I'd expect "panic" to mean a reaction that makes the plant more alert or able to act faster.

Re: Plants “panic” when it rains

#55

Post by danharaj »

samvher wrote: post #17
danharaj wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, we have many primal and ancient behaviors that can be contextualized on evolutionary timescales so that it can be reasonably said that, yea, a lot of our behaviors have common heritage with even plants.

Except our last common ancestor with plants was single celled so we’re unlikely to share many multicellular behaviors. Commonalities will be sub-cellular.

Unicellular life has stress responses too.

Re: Plants “panic” when it rains

#56

Post by pbhjpbhj »

coldtea wrote: post #34
mikekchar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there times when "panic" is an appropriate response to something? I mean it is often an understandable response, but I have to agree that my understanding of the term is that is a response to being overwhelmed and responding haphazardly as a result. Is that an accurate description of what's happening? The actual article is a bit light to really understand. I wonder if it's the "chain reaction" across individual t…

> Are there times when "panic" is an appropriate response to something? Yes. When something is panic inducing. Note that the bad connotations of panic are for not panic worthy situations (e.g. don't panic when you just lost your wallet, etc). But when chased by a predator, a panic response is a good, and evolutionary created, way, to get from 0-60 mph adrenaline and speed wise... A gazelle doesn't sit still and weigh…

I think "panic" is a segment between realising you're in danger and responding, eg "running". Panic is when you know you need to respond quickly and come to a conclusion as to the best action, but you know you can't wait for your thought process to play through.

Once you decide to move, run (if that wasn't an instinctive response), then panic is over and action has ensued.

It's the "beachball of doom" bit that happens when the you spot the lion. Do I fight, or hide, or run, ... {computing best response, please wait} ... it's the wait in that parenthetical bit where your supervisory control systems say "argh, this is taking too long, in going to get eaten".

Surely?

The dictionary.com definition has it as "overwhelming fear that causes a sudden hysterical or irrational behaviour". Running from a predator is rational, or instinctive.

Re: Plants “panic” when it rains

#57

Post by sigmaprimus »

Thaliana wrote: post #32
sigmaprimus wrote: post #13

It would have been nice to see what particular plants were used in this study. I somehow doubt that all plants react this way. Considering some plants grow under water, others such as sequoias are dependent on fog for their irrigation. Interesting article none the less.

The plants used in this study are Arabidopsis thaliana, which is a very commonly used model organism in plant biology. I think it's not a particularly wild assumption that a lot of plants will react in this way. The MYC2 protein and jasmonic acid are important regulators of plant defenses so priming of defenses when it rains makes sense. There are pathogens (such as Pseudomonas syringae) that can trick a plant into o…

I still stand by my original comment, it would have been nice to have the type of plant studied included in the article and or in the synopsis of the paid article.

"The plants used in this study are Arabidopsis thaliana" was this information in the story and I just missed it? Or are you making that assumption due to that being a "very commonly used model organism in plant biology"? The plant image used at the top of the article looks nothing like rock cres but instead more like some sort of hosta or lilly pad, I wonder if the image plant is shaped that way to catch and funnel water away from its roots? Just as a palm does the opposite? Anyways I could go on, just wish they had included the species in the article.

Re: Plants “panic” when it rains

#58

Post by sigmaprimus »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #20
sigmaprimus wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fog-that-nourishe... https://baynature.org/article/fog-and-redwoods-demystifying-...

We have plenty of redwoods growing in my country (NZ) that aren't watered by fogs but by just plain ol' rain. While I'm sure that fogs are essential for redwoods in the California climate, it doesn't mean they are inherently coupled - they grow quite happily in the inland Canterbury Plains, bugger all fog, but enough rain to get them watered. Hell, we even named a suburb after one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redwo…

Fair enough, interesting fact just as all roosters are chickens but not all chickens are roosters, not all redwoods are sequoias. I actually mixed them up too.

http://sequoia.visionbib.com/sequoia-redwood.html

Re: Plants “panic” when it rains

#59

Post by Thaliana »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #57
Thaliana wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plants used in this study are Arabidopsis thaliana, which is a very commonly used model organism in plant biology. I think it's not a particularly wild assumption that a lot of plants will react in this way. The MYC2 protein and jasmonic acid are important regulators of plant defenses so priming of defenses when it rains makes sense. There are pathogens (such as Pseudomonas syringae) that can trick a plant into o…

I still stand by my original comment, it would have been nice to have the type of plant studied included in the article and or in the synopsis of the paid article. "The plants used in this study are Arabidopsis thaliana" was this information in the story and I just missed it? Or are you making that assumption due to that being a "very commonly used model organism in plant biology"? The plant image used at the top of…

Checking the article again I got it from the "More Information" box at the bottom of the article. The paper is titled "In vivo evidence for a regulatory role of phosphorylation of Arabidopsis Rubisco activase at the Thr78 site" so that means A. thaliana.

The picture is certainly misleading, I guess they just grabbed a generic "plants in a rainforest" picture for evocative reasons.

Re: Plants “panic” when it rains

#60

Post by sigmaprimus »

Thaliana wrote: post #32
sigmaprimus wrote: post #13

It would have been nice to see what particular plants were used in this study. I somehow doubt that all plants react this way. Considering some plants grow under water, others such as sequoias are dependent on fog for their irrigation. Interesting article none the less.

The plants used in this study are Arabidopsis thaliana, which is a very commonly used model organism in plant biology. I think it's not a particularly wild assumption that a lot of plants will react in this way. The MYC2 protein and jasmonic acid are important regulators of plant defenses so priming of defenses when it rains makes sense. There are pathogens (such as Pseudomonas syringae) that can trick a plant into o…

I understand the premise of the article and it makes sense, a very common example of this occuring in many gardens would be powdered mildew on squashes and the like. The leaves dont even have to be penetrated in order to damage the plant and rain definitely encourages the spreading from leaf to leaf.
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