Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned • Hacker News Board

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#81

Post by mcv » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 11:53 AM UTC

CaptainZapp wrote: post #16

jeswin wrote: post #8

I was surprised to learn that India is the only country[1] to ban the production and import of Foie Gras. Very few people would even know about the dish in India. But anyway, I hope this torturous practice comes to an end worldwide. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras_controversy

Do you eat meat at all? If so, how were the animals raised, slaughtered and processed? This ban seems rather hypocritical to me given the atrocities happening in mass meat production. While there are absolutely terrible things happening in Foie Gras production (I would never, ever buy any products from Hungary, as a for example) the really good stuff is raised quite humanely.[1] To me this just looks like an attempt…

We should absolutely also address other atrocities in meat production, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't also address this. Personally I only eat animals I know to have had a decent life, because I don't want to contribute to the torture of animals.

But changing the mass meat market is sadly a lot harder than changing the market for such a specialty item. Avoiding restaurants that serve meat is a lot harder than avoiding restaurants that serve foie gras. I hope it's a step in the right direction and we'll create better standards for how we treat animals.

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#82

Post by pentae » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 12:42 PM UTC

donw wrote: post #21

pentae wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe lawmakers are just tired of seeing loopholes abused by unscrupulous people. It's like banning shark fin, it just gets taken off the menu but can be ordered in mandarin.

That may not be the best analogy. If shark fin is illegal, then being able to order it in Mandarin isn't a "loophole" -- it doesn't magically become legal on a technicality. It's just a means of avoiding enforcement of the law, by making the illicit activity less obvious.

Agreed it was worded poorly.. I didn't mean that as an analogy of "loophole" but the kind of unscrupulous stuff happening in the food industry

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#83

Post by camexp » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 12:52 PM UTC

jillesvangurp wrote: post #51

Nice case of double standards. The practice of force feeding geese looks more cruel than it is. It's basically nothing compared to what we routinely do to chickens and other farm animals. Industrial chicken farming is infinitely more cruel compared to this. We're talking about organically farmed birds that are kept such that they are fattened up and delicious (aka. in good health) in a way that is the complete opposi…

I don't believe it is double standards to ban one thing and not another, if that was the case then progress would never be made with anything. Maybe banning the wholesale production of meat is a bit more complex than banning a few restaurants serving one particular cruel foodstuff? I have worked in chicken factories, and I can say without reservation that these places are not nice. I still eat chicken though.

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#84

Post by Pyxl101 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

dkersten wrote: post #78

seanwilson wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we don't base our moral choices on what animals do to each other" Also: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/veggie-cat-food/ > Unlike dogs and other omnivores, cats are true (so-called “obligate”) carnivores: They meet their nutritional needs by consuming other animals and have a higher protein requirement than many other mammals. Cats get certain key nutrients from meat—including taurine, arachidonic acid, v…

Sure. My point was only that cats kill even when they are already well fed. The larger point is that nature can be cruel. I suppose I should have written a proper more detailed comment, I absolutely do believe that humans should hold ourselves to a higher standard and definitely shouldn’t be doing cruel things to living creatures because we do know better and can do better. But nature is still a pretty messed up plac…

Be careful about drawing conclusions about broader nature from the behavior of the domestic cat. The cat’s behavior is, like the dog’s, very significantly the result of human driven natural selection. In the cat’s case, humans have favored them for 1000s of years because they kill pests like rodents. That was their ancestral “job”, their role as a domesticated animal that lives in harmony with humans.

You can probably find some other animals in nature that kill for no apparent reason though. There is apparently a term for it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing (though the term confusingly conflates unnecessary killing with caching the excess for later)

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#85

Post by oliwarner » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 1:47 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #58

jamil7 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help feeling a similar way, a small group of wealthy people eating an obscure, traditional food is an easier target and makes for a much better story than addressing the elephant in the room that is mainstream factory farming.

It's very far from a "luxury" or "wealthy" item in France, it's something most families will have on their table at Christmas. I don't know where this false luxury stereotype comes from.

Something you have on your Christmas table? What's your definition of luxury?

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#86

Post by gumby » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

Despite what the article says, the California foo GRAS ban was blocked by the courts on federal grounds and foi gras is widely available.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_foie_gras_law

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#87

Post by machinecoffee » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

jillesvangurp wrote: post #51

Nice case of double standards. The practice of force feeding geese looks more cruel than it is. It's basically nothing compared to what we routinely do to chickens and other farm animals. Industrial chicken farming is infinitely more cruel compared to this. We're talking about organically farmed birds that are kept such that they are fattened up and delicious (aka. in good health) in a way that is the complete opposi…

Whilst battery farming is cruel and inhumane to the animals, it can be done in a better way.

However, foie gras can never be done humanely, it's a horrible practice where the animal has to suffer in order for a diner to have 5 minutes of gastronomic enjoyment.

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#88

Post by lazerpants » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

machinecoffee wrote: post #87

jillesvangurp wrote: post #51

Nice case of double standards. The practice of force feeding geese looks more cruel than it is. It's basically nothing compared to what we routinely do to chickens and other farm animals. Industrial chicken farming is infinitely more cruel compared to this. We're talking about organically farmed birds that are kept such that they are fattened up and delicious (aka. in good health) in a way that is the complete opposi…

Whilst battery farming is cruel and inhumane to the animals, it can be done in a better way. However, foie gras can never be done humanely, it's a horrible practice where the animal has to suffer in order for a diner to have 5 minutes of gastronomic enjoyment.

Not quite true. There are ethical ways of getting foie.

https://www.ted.com/talks/dan_barber_s_surprising_foie_gras_...

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#89

Post by gumby » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #86

Despite what the article says, the California foo GRAS ban was blocked by the courts on federal grounds and foi gras is widely available. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_foie_gras_law

Sometimes I really hate spell correcting: apologies for "foi gras" becoming "foo GRAS"

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#90

Post by sneak » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

donw wrote: post #24

sneak wrote: post #3

> Under the law, it will be assumed that all foie gras came from duck or geese that have been force-fed unless “documentary” evidence is provided to the contrary. Guilty until proven innocent seems to be the general trend in NYC these days.

I don't think it is entirely unfair that restaurants be required to prove origin when challenged, especially for commonly counterfeited ingredients. Let's say that I go to a restaurant that claims they only use true cinnamon and Kashmir saffron to flavor a cinnamon roll, which they sell at a premium because of the high-quality ingredients. When challenged, that restaurant needs to be able to show proof that they are…

The specifics of an alleged crime are irrelevant. Treating people as if they are guilty when you have no evidence of a crime (“reasonable suspicion”, in legal terms) is a violation of their civil rights.