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Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

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Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#71

Post by ivanhoe »

computerex wrote: post #10
sneak wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I encourage you to learn more about it. It is not harmful or painful or cruel, the animals come willingly to the person who feeds them.

The animals are literally force fed with a tube. The animal's liver swells to many times its normal size. I am not sure what you are talking about. There is a reason why this practice is controversial to begin with. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

That's only one way to do it, probably the most efficient one for mass farming. In my country there is a similar delicacy, but instead of tube traditionally geese were fed by hand. Farmers would prepare balls of food, and then those balls were pushed into the geese's beak and down the throat by hand, until it's totally full. This is more time consuming than using a funnel and a tube to just pour the food.

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#72

Post by lucideer »

carlmr wrote: post #67
jillesvangurp wrote: post #51

Nice case of double standards. The practice of force feeding geese looks more cruel than it is. It's basically nothing compared to what we routinely do to chickens and other farm animals. Industrial chicken farming is infinitely more cruel compared to this. We're talking about organically farmed birds that are kept such that they are fattened up and delicious (aka. in good health) in a way that is the complete opposi…

>We're talking about organically farmed birds that are kept such that they are fattened up and delicious (aka. in good health) A fatty liver is by definition the opposite of good health.

I'm not sure of the level of overfeeding that happens, nor the precise health implications thereof, but afaik foie gras originated from killing wild geese who had "over"-fed themselves as part of their regular pre-migration preparation.

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#74

Post by benhurmarcel »

realusername wrote: post #58
jamil7 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help feeling a similar way, a small group of wealthy people eating an obscure, traditional food is an easier target and makes for a much better story than addressing the elephant in the room that is mainstream factory farming.

It's very far from a "luxury" or "wealthy" item in France, it's something most families will have on their table at Christmas. I don't know where this false luxury stereotype comes from.

That's true but then even in France it's not something cheap. It's exceptional and as you said, basically something you have once or twice a year.

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#75

Post by saiya-jin »

realusername wrote: post #58
jamil7 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help feeling a similar way, a small group of wealthy people eating an obscure, traditional food is an easier target and makes for a much better story than addressing the elephant in the room that is mainstream factory farming.

It's very far from a "luxury" or "wealthy" item in France, it's something most families will have on their table at Christmas. I don't know where this false luxury stereotype comes from.

Well its a rather expensive item in the shops. Affordable still, but paying 15-30 euros for a small box brings it into affordable luxury category IMHO. Its more expensive than exquisite french/italian cheeses with black truffles for example.

Same would go for ie Moet champagne, one can afford it but you definitely notice the price.

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#76

Post by mcv »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #51

Nice case of double standards. The practice of force feeding geese looks more cruel than it is. It's basically nothing compared to what we routinely do to chickens and other farm animals. Industrial chicken farming is infinitely more cruel compared to this. We're talking about organically farmed birds that are kept such that they are fattened up and delicious (aka. in good health) in a way that is the complete opposi…

Foie gras does not come from geese who are merely "fattened up". It comes from geese who have been made intentionally sick to make their liver swell up to several times it's normal (healthy) size.

There is such a thing a thing as more natural "animal friendly" foie gras which apparently takes advantage of geese's natural instinct to gorge themselves before migration, which results in a slightly enlarged liver, but still much smaller than the traditional foie gras. I've never been able to find any in a restaurant, though, so I just avoid foie gras and the restaurants that serve it.

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#77

Post by gus_massa »

calf wrote: post #28

If I were an investor I would ask Hudson Valley and the other specialty farms to look into GMO and lab-grown foie. Maybe liver is easier to do than muscle tissue. Foie tastes like magical butter and it would be wonderful if there was a more ethical way to have it.

It is posible to transplant part of the liver from a person to another, and both will regrow a complete liver. So this may work but IANAMD. More info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_transplantation#Living_d...

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#78

Post by dkersten »

seanwilson wrote: post #48
dkersten wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My cat isn’t in a survival situation either and has options that don’t involve killing. Hell, when she does kill a rodent, she doesn’t even eat it.

"we don't base our moral choices on what animals do to each other" Also: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/veggie-cat-food/ > Unlike dogs and other omnivores, cats are true (so-called “obligate”) carnivores: They meet their nutritional needs by consuming other animals and have a higher protein requirement than many other mammals. Cats get certain key nutrients from meat—including taurine, arachidonic acid, v…

Sure. My point was only that cats kill even when they are already well fed. The larger point is that nature can be cruel.

I suppose I should have written a proper more detailed comment, I absolutely do believe that humans should hold ourselves to a higher standard and definitely shouldn’t be doing cruel things to living creatures because we do know better and can do better. But nature is still a pretty messed up place sometimes.

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#79

Post by dkersten »

seanwilson wrote: post #55
dkersten wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no issue with free range eggs from a local keeping chickens (where I know that they are, indeed, well treated, well kept and free range) since they lay eggs most days whether you eat them or not and if you don’t use them, they would rot or attract rodents.

> I see no issue with free range eggs from a local keeping chickens - Male chickens are usually ground up alive within a day of being born because they're not economical to keep for meat. Locally kept chickens still feed into this supply and demand as the egg laying hens have to come from somewhere. - Egg laying chickens can live for about 8 years but are usually killed after 2 years when they stop producing as many…

> free range doesn't mean what most people think it does

That’s why I said local. I grew up in the country and lots of people had a few chickens. They run around freely and are not “farmed”. They’re almost pets. They lay eggs all the time, so there’s nothing wrong with eating those eggs.

As for where the hens come from, this is how my parents got hens when they kept chickens a long time ago: go to your neighbour with a rooster and say “hey, neighbour, could I get some chicks next time you have some? Thanks”

> Free-range chicken eggs, however, have no legal definition in the United States

I don’t live in the US though.

> We bred chickens to lay eggs that often

Ok, but now that they do, what are we to do? Slaughter all the non-farmed free range chickens to find some wild ones? The damage is done, what’s wrong with giving them good lives and enjoying their abandoned eggs?

Re: Foie Gras, Served in 1k Restaurants in NYC, Is Banned

#80

Post by dkersten »

scandinavegan wrote: post #69
dkersten wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no issue with free range eggs from a local keeping chickens (where I know that they are, indeed, well treated, well kept and free range) since they lay eggs most days whether you eat them or not and if you don’t use them, they would rot or attract rodents.

How many eggs would each person get to eat per year using that production method? We surely wouldn't be able to keep boiling them, frying them, using them in most baked goods, and so on, because production would drop to a fraction of what it currently is. I'm vegan, and on my honeymoon we went to a place where hens ran around free in the villages and would crawl underneath bushes to sleep for the night. Even I wouldn…

Maybe I should have put scare quotes around “free range”, I didn’t mean free range certified or whatever, I literally meant “running around freely” like what you described on your honeymoon.

> how many people would that feed?

Where I grew up, lots of people had a few hens running around and they typically gave their excess eggs away as there were too many. It wouldn’t take that much to sustain a small community on eggs.

But yes, you’re right, it wouldn’t replace the egg industry, my point is simply that if you do have access to such eggs, then I see no issues with eating them, even if you’re otherwise vegan.

> must also agree that we would need plant-based alternatives for almost all our current uses.

I don’t disagree at all and certainly never said we can replace all farmed eggs with cruelty-free free-roaming-chicken eggs, just that if you do have access to those eggs, then as far as I’m concerned, enjoy some eggs.

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