Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says • Hacker News Board

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#21

Post by SapporoChris » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:45 AM UTC

fluffything wrote: post #16

huffmsa wrote: post #12

> 100 officers, 19 hours and a Bearcat APC Man, when you have staff and resources, I guess you need to justify the bills. Instead of, you know, putting a couple units outside the house and waiting a week. Those must have been some expensive belts and shirts. Though there's no way the use of force here is comparable with the value of items being reclaimed.

Somebody stole 50$ worth of stuff. Instead of letting insurance pay and calling it a day, lest waste a couple of hundred thousand dollars and fully destroy somebody's home for another couple of hundred thousand dollars in damages. What should happen here is that whoever thought this was the right course of action should be fired, and liable.

You realize the suspect was firing at police officers? I am in no way defending the destruction of a home. However, I do realize this is not a situation where a couple of officers can be posted outside the home and wait the situation out. An armed suspect firing out of a home is a clear and present danger to the community.

edited to add quote

Who drives armored cars? People who expect gun-fire. Usually people with some fire-power of their own. -Burn Notice

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#22

Post by pas » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:47 AM UTC

fluffything wrote: post #16

huffmsa wrote: post #12

> 100 officers, 19 hours and a Bearcat APC Man, when you have staff and resources, I guess you need to justify the bills. Instead of, you know, putting a couple units outside the house and waiting a week. Those must have been some expensive belts and shirts. Though there's no way the use of force here is comparable with the value of items being reclaimed.

Somebody stole 50$ worth of stuff. Instead of letting insurance pay and calling it a day, lest waste a couple of hundred thousand dollars and fully destroy somebody's home for another couple of hundred thousand dollars in damages. What should happen here is that whoever thought this was the right course of action should be fired, and liable.

??

Just throw in a few canisters of tear gas and wait for the dude come out. Then open the windows and that's it. How they managed to blow up the house is ... insane.

And it took 19 hours? Why? He was using a handgun. Haven't they heard of suppressive fire? What the hell.

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#23

Post by DaiPlusPlus » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:48 AM UTC

One would assume that if the damaged caused by the police was justifiable, then the responsibility for damage compensation lies with the criminal suspect in the case - and if they're unable to compensate the homeowner then the remainder should come from the municipality or state's general victims' fund. Does Denver or CO have such a fund?

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#24

Post by dbdjfjrjvebd » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:49 AM UTC

Sharlin wrote: post #8

bloak wrote: post #5

There was a similar, though less spectacular, case in the UK, in which the police spent more on lawyers successfully defending the case than it would have cost to compensate the person whose door they had smashed down in the middle of the night because they had incompetently got the wrong address.

Establishing precedent is important, especially in common law jurisdictions.

Not causing the general public to fear and mistrust the police is even more important.

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#25

Post by Keverw » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:54 AM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #7

> Authorities say the suspect stole two belts and a shirt from a Walmart. After he left the store, police say, he broke into Lech's house for protection and was firing at officers with a handgun. Eventually, SWAT officers entered the home and apprehended him. ... > The court noted that if police officers "willfully or wantonly" destroy property, they can be sued in a civil tort case. Lech tried to pursue that legal a…

I think it's a little strange they'd even chase someone over two belts and a shirt... I wonder if they knew he was armed, since it was shoplifting and not like a bank robbery, but escalated though from there anyways.

Just really surprised they'd prioritise such low value items. I know I've heard in some cities like San Francisco, the police are so busy with everything else even cars being broken into or stolen isn't even a high priority. So the police are pretty much useless and only good for just to get it documented for the insurance company. Then, of course, you have to pay for a copy of the police report, and some or maybe even most places won't even accept credit, debit or even checks. Exact change only. Ideally, though no one should steal at all and in the ideal world, everyone who stolen would be caught.

My first iPod Touch was stolen in high school, and the police took a report. I even thought I knew who did it... The officer even asked me if I'm sure I didn't misplace it or lose it, trying to blame me I guess. I kinda feel like corporations are more protected than everyday citizens sadly. Maybe a Walmart in a city will bring more income than a single person though is the logic.

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#26

Post by 100100010001 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:58 AM UTC

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #23

One would assume that if the damaged caused by the police was justifiable, then the responsibility for damage compensation lies with the criminal suspect in the case - and if they're unable to compensate the homeowner then the remainder should come from the municipality or state's general victims' fund. Does Denver or CO have such a fund?

I wouldn’t qualify using military grade equipment in Colorado for stealing two belts and a shirt justifiable.

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#27

Post by huffmsa » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:01 AM UTC

SapporoChris wrote: post #21

fluffything wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody stole 50$ worth of stuff. Instead of letting insurance pay and calling it a day, lest waste a couple of hundred thousand dollars and fully destroy somebody's home for another couple of hundred thousand dollars in damages. What should happen here is that whoever thought this was the right course of action should be fired, and liable.

You realize the suspect was firing at police officers? I am in no way defending the destruction of a home. However, I do realize this is not a situation where a couple of officers can be posted outside the home and wait the situation out. An armed suspect firing out of a home is a clear and present danger to the community. edited to add quote Who drives armored cars? People who expect gun-fire. Usually people with so…

Unless he had one of those drum magazine glocks, he'd have been out of ammo after 15-45 rounds (depending on if he had backup magazines).

They could have just parked the APC out front and waited a bit.

No need to crash it through the front door.

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#28

Post by panic » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:01 AM UTC

fluffything wrote: post #15

mattacular wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be an extreme outcome but excessive escalation by the police in America is also the norm. Look at recent encounters with NYPD in the subway over a man not paying the fare (value less than 5$).

Have a link?

I think this is the video they're referring to: https://twitter.com/PopChassid/status/1187838293104304130

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#29

Post by not2personal » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:04 AM UTC

pas wrote: post #22

fluffything wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody stole 50$ worth of stuff. Instead of letting insurance pay and calling it a day, lest waste a couple of hundred thousand dollars and fully destroy somebody's home for another couple of hundred thousand dollars in damages. What should happen here is that whoever thought this was the right course of action should be fired, and liable.

?? Just throw in a few canisters of tear gas and wait for the dude come out. Then open the windows and that's it. How they managed to blow up the house is ... insane. And it took 19 hours? Why? He was using a handgun. Haven't they heard of suppressive fire? What the hell.

Alright modern warfare, next time we will call you so you can run in screaming "no time for backup"

Re: Police Owe Nothing to Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says

#30

Post by 100100010001 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 10:11 AM UTC

dbdjfjrjvebd wrote: post #24

Sharlin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Establishing precedent is important, especially in common law jurisdictions.

Not causing the general public to fear and mistrust the police is even more important.

Wouldn’t law enforcement getting away with crimes cause fear? It seems like it would show they are above the law and can act like bullies without repercussions.

Admitting a mistake and trying to make it right will gain trust.