Twitter to ban political advertising • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#741

Post by intended » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 8:30 AM UTC

acd wrote: post #736

moksly wrote: post #666

In Denmark we have laws in place that hold news paper editors responsible for printing truth. They don’t always succeed, but they try to, and when they do fail they admit it and apologise. This is what has kept our society well informed and critical thinking for a hundred years. It’s also allowed for different sides of things, because you can interpret things like socioeconomic statistics and facts differently and wr…

The recommendations algorithms have access to all our past interactions with these sites. They know exactly what we like and dislike. In order to keep us hooked they keep recommending content that we will continue to watch. There needs to be regulation of this both for news and mental health reasons. What happens when a recommendation algorithm in order to increase ad revenue keeps recommending depressing videos to a…

This is the tip of the problem.

What if new science tells us that seeing certain types of news results in X condition, 20% of the time ?

Social networks are stuck.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#742

Post by intended » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 8:32 AM UTC

This will get lost, but we need to end paid news.

Independent new agencies - truly independent, with only one stated goal, being factual.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#743

Post by azangru » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 8:42 AM UTC

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #711

sacrificedcapon wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that saudi arabia, china, russia, etc all have laws in place to hold newspaper editors responsible for printing "truth" right? > This is what has kept our society well informed and critical thinking for a hundred years. What makes you think you are a well-informed and critical thinking society? Don't most danes think alike just like most saudis, chinese, russians, etc. Don't most danes think and believ…

You don't discredit anti-vaxxers with speech. Same with flat-earthers. Same with fascists. You know what works? De-platforming them. Not giving them a voice in the public discourse. Not taking anti-vaxxers seriously and placing them at the same level as doctors because ''both sides'' and ''free speech''. What has been proven again and again is that bad information drives out good, because it's so, so much easier to w…

> You know what works? De-platforming them. Not giving them a voice in the public discourse

Many people (me included) find this approach very unpalatable because of how inherently authoritarian it is. (Ironically, this suggestion often comes from the same people who are concerned by how underrepresented some groups are in the public discourse and how the voices of those groups are not heard, and want to artificially amplify those voices). If you have studied history of any repressive regime where dissenters were deprived of any conventional platform and were reduced to circulating their ideas in the underground, you might empathise.

It's absolutely fine not to take certain groups seriously. But it feels (to me) deeply unfair to undermine their very ability to speak.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#744

Post by intended » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 8:43 AM UTC

cf498 wrote: post #734

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't discredit anti-vaxxers with speech. Same with flat-earthers. Same with fascists. You know what works? De-platforming them. Not giving them a voice in the public discourse. Not taking anti-vaxxers seriously and placing them at the same level as doctors because ''both sides'' and ''free speech''. What has been proven again and again is that bad information drives out good, because it's so, so much easier to w…

>You don't discredit anti-vaxxers with speech. Same with flat-earthers. Same with fascists. You know what works? De-platforming them. I would like a source on that. Dont take it personal, but I dont see how this is anything but tanky signaling to feel better about yourself. Here in Germany people were rather active in making sure the new far right party AFD wasnt given a platform. By now they are very close to being…

I can source it.

I worked on modding a political forum from its laissez fairs days to its current operating philosophy.

Bad speech regularly frowns out signal, and in times of crisis, will overwhelm the channel with emotion.

It’s easier to make vague funny one liners which reach the top of the page, drowning out that 8 page report on the telecom industry.

Bashing a political candidate? Channel crusher.

Once the channel is overtaken, crazier philosophies start opening up - nationalism, religious cleansing, minority targeting.

Start moderating to keep the demons away?

The banned users start forming their own sites and attacking you. Bread crumb arguments are spread to lead new users down a dark road and create more enemies.

Eventually what works is banning all known bad actors and mention of those sites.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#745

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 8:43 AM UTC

moksly wrote: post #666

In Denmark we have laws in place that hold news paper editors responsible for printing truth. They don’t always succeed, but they try to, and when they do fail they admit it and apologise. This is what has kept our society well informed and critical thinking for a hundred years. It’s also allowed for different sides of things, because you can interpret things like socioeconomic statistics and facts differently and wr…

> This died with Facebook, YouTube and the non-editorial entertainment “news” and as a result we have anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers and what not.

Are you literally blaming YouTube for flat earthers in Denmark?

The issue is that all regulators are human, and all humans have biases. No man is fit to play the censor.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#746

Post by ralusek » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 8:48 AM UTC

akie wrote: post #739

ralusek wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lowest level of truth telling is stating facts, but even stating facts can be extremely manipulative. If I were to say: "2x as many white Americans were killed by police as black Americans in 2018." This a true fact. If I take note of the fact that black Americans only constitute 13% of the population, then I can say "A black American is 2.3x as likely as a white American to be killed by police." This is also a t…

> In America, we understand that there is absolutely nothing more dangerous than an entity that feels entitled to control what is true. It might make things easier, and it might actually produce better results so long as the entity doing so is competent and benevolent, but nearly every structure in America is meant to serve as a bulwark for the cases in which the entity in power is precisely the sort that you do not…

Trump has been able to do very little, and this is a good thing. However, what he has done is effectively demonstrate that the executive branch has too much centralized power, not too little.

In regards to whether or not it would be great if we had a powerful centralized body that could determine what constitute outrageous lies worthy of a fine, no, for the reasons I've already stated, I do not think that this would be a good thing. I have no problem with European and Asian countries granting their (very often highly competent) governments greater authorities than what is afforded to the US government, but I think it's supremely important that there remains at least one superpower fundamentally predicated on a mistrust of a central authority.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#747

Post by account73466 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 8:49 AM UTC

cf498 wrote: post #734

FranzFerdiNaN wrote: post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't discredit anti-vaxxers with speech. Same with flat-earthers. Same with fascists. You know what works? De-platforming them. Not giving them a voice in the public discourse. Not taking anti-vaxxers seriously and placing them at the same level as doctors because ''both sides'' and ''free speech''. What has been proven again and again is that bad information drives out good, because it's so, so much easier to w…

>You don't discredit anti-vaxxers with speech. Same with flat-earthers. Same with fascists. You know what works? De-platforming them. I would like a source on that. Dont take it personal, but I dont see how this is anything but tanky signaling to feel better about yourself. Here in Germany people were rather active in making sure the new far right party AFD wasnt given a platform. By now they are very close to being…

Too many words to convince that guy. It is funny how one can tick people in thinking high of themself. For instance, they usually don't have a clue about vaccination, AI or climate but they know that there is a trend and as long as you keep the currently popular opinion, you will be on the right side. Up to them, the rest are dumb fucks and should be deplatformed. Obviously, most of them never worked in science and have no critical thinking which develops while reviewing hundreds of papers where people (mostly) lie in order to get things published.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#748

Post by cf498 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 8:50 AM UTC

intended wrote: post #744

cf498 wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You don't discredit anti-vaxxers with speech. Same with flat-earthers. Same with fascists. You know what works? De-platforming them. I would like a source on that. Dont take it personal, but I dont see how this is anything but tanky signaling to feel better about yourself. Here in Germany people were rather active in making sure the new far right party AFD wasnt given a platform. By now they are very close to being…

I can source it. I worked on modding a political forum from its laissez fairs days to its current operating philosophy. Bad speech regularly frowns out signal, and in times of crisis, will overwhelm the channel with emotion. It’s easier to make vague funny one liners which reach the top of the page, drowning out that 8 page report on the telecom industry. Bashing a political candidate? Channel crusher. Once the chann…

The people are still the same and they are still around, all you did was keeping your livingroom analog clean and your existing userbase from being replaced by racists. We dont have that luxury with society at large. These people dont just vanish once they are no longer on your site.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#749

Post by mikkelam » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 8:51 AM UTC

Kiro wrote: post #733

moksly wrote: post #666

In Denmark we have laws in place that hold news paper editors responsible for printing truth. They don’t always succeed, but they try to, and when they do fail they admit it and apologise. This is what has kept our society well informed and critical thinking for a hundred years. It’s also allowed for different sides of things, because you can interpret things like socioeconomic statistics and facts differently and wr…

Denmark? You mean one of the least feminist countries in the developed world? Not to mention the openly racist narrative about immigrants in public media. Compared to other Scandinavian countries the Danish media is extremely toxic so not sure about portraiting it as a role model in "well informed and critical thinking".

Not sure what "least feministic" means but it's also the 2nd best place in the world to be a woman [1].

[1] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-women

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#750

Post by n0rbwah » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 8:52 AM UTC

piokoch wrote: post #724

moksly wrote: post #666

In Denmark we have laws in place that hold news paper editors responsible for printing truth. They don’t always succeed, but they try to, and when they do fail they admit it and apologise. This is what has kept our society well informed and critical thinking for a hundred years. It’s also allowed for different sides of things, because you can interpret things like socioeconomic statistics and facts differently and wr…

Truth. Yes. Problem is that sometimes the truth is very, very inconvenient for someone (important), then it is forbidden, called lies or conspiracy theory or hate speech. Before Snowden we had some conspiracy theories that NSA is spying on everyone, but those who claimed that were ridiculed. Before the communism fell the truth that Polish officers were murdered in Katyn forest by Soviets was considered a lie (officia…

If you can't back up your claim with hard evidence, it's hardly an objective truth. Hence NSA spying being "conspiracy theory" before Snowden.