A similar discussion took place here when they took action on Alex Jones.
Twitter to ban political advertising
721–730 of 1001 posts
Re: Twitter to ban political advertising
#722Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah Why not? It’s pure narrative without conclusion. another source, in this case the ny times, would be equally free to publish the statement: “Vice President Biden was overseeing American policy toward Ukraine at the time, and he did push for the removal of the country’s top prosecutor, who was seen as corrupt or ineffectual by the United States and Western European governments. But there is no evidence he did so…
You guys are disagreeing on facts, or at least entering muddy territory. > The prosecutor said he was forced out for leading a corruption probe into Hunter Biden's company > there is no evidence he did so to benefit Hunter Biden
“The prosecutor said” something.
It’s entirely fair to report what the prosecutor said provided it’s clearly attributed as it was here.
You’re free to draw your own conclusion that the prosecutor is possibly lying.
Re: Twitter to ban political advertising
#723In Denmark we have laws in place that hold news paper editors responsible for printing truth. They don’t always succeed, but they try to, and when they do fail they admit it and apologise. This is what has kept our society well informed and critical thinking for a hundred years. It’s also allowed for different sides of things, because you can interpret things like socioeconomic statistics and facts differently and wr…
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Re: Twitter to ban political advertising
#724In Denmark we have laws in place that hold news paper editors responsible for printing truth. They don’t always succeed, but they try to, and when they do fail they admit it and apologise. This is what has kept our society well informed and critical thinking for a hundred years. It’s also allowed for different sides of things, because you can interpret things like socioeconomic statistics and facts differently and wr…
Truth. Yes. Problem is that sometimes the truth is very, very inconvenient for someone (important), then it is forbidden, called lies or conspiracy theory or hate speech.
Before Snowden we had some conspiracy theories that NSA is spying on everyone, but those who claimed that were ridiculed.
Before the communism fell the truth that Polish officers were murdered in Katyn forest by Soviets was considered a lie (official "truth" was that Germans did that) - this truth was so annoying that for a long time (until 1980ties) even Western countries official policy preferred lies only to maintain good relations with Soviet Union.
For a quite a long time (till 1960ies) people thought that this is a good idea to check if shoes fit using X-rays. The truth of that times was that X-rays used in that way are safe.
And I can go on like this for hours.
People lie, people make mistakes, people have shady interests and motivations, human knowledge is restricted. If we enforce official "truth" we never learn the truth. Maybe this will help to keep societies in peace (in the Orwellian way).
Communists tried that, luckily they failed. Chinese half Communism half Confucianism tries that now, we will see how it will end up.
Re: Twitter to ban political advertising
#725Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every example you provide is legal, what isn’t legal is telling people that the moon is made of cheese in a non-satirical news article.
That's kind of besides the point though. He was showing that even when printing things that would be considered legally truthful, you can still maintain a narrative.
But that was part of my origin point, with:
> It’s also allowed for different sides of things, because you can interpret things like socioeconomic statistics and facts differently and write about them as such, but you can’t make up things.
But maybe my English wasn’t good enough to carry it through.
I don’t think narratives are a problem as such. People are allowed different opinions in a free society. Our laws are there to prevent people from printing things that are outright false, but these laws are being circumvented on the modern media platforms because they apply to editiorial staff but not private citizens.
Which is a problem in a world where influencers have more viewers than news papers.
Re: Twitter to ban political advertising
#726In Denmark we have laws in place that hold news paper editors responsible for printing truth. They don’t always succeed, but they try to, and when they do fail they admit it and apologise. This is what has kept our society well informed and critical thinking for a hundred years. It’s also allowed for different sides of things, because you can interpret things like socioeconomic statistics and facts differently and wr…
You do realize that saudi arabia, china, russia, etc all have laws in place to hold newspaper editors responsible for printing "truth" right? > This is what has kept our society well informed and critical thinking for a hundred years. What makes you think you are a well-informed and critical thinking society? Don't most danes think alike just like most saudis, chinese, russians, etc. Don't most danes think and believ…
Except that
(1) The Danes who wrote those laws were elected by the citizens in a fair and open democracy.
(2) The enforcement (presumably) falls on their judicial system. One that is transparent, progressive and highly respected around the world.
(3) That Denmark has one of the lowest rates of corruption in the world.
(4) That Danes are free to pursue information elsewhere (as in the entire internet) if they don't like whats available locally.
But besides those things, you're right. It's just like the situation in Saudi Arabia, China and Russia. /s
Re: Twitter to ban political advertising
#727Earlier quoted context omitted.
You do realize that saudi arabia, china, russia, etc all have laws in place to hold newspaper editors responsible for printing "truth" right? > This is what has kept our society well informed and critical thinking for a hundred years. What makes you think you are a well-informed and critical thinking society? Don't most danes think alike just like most saudis, chinese, russians, etc. Don't most danes think and believ…
You don't discredit anti-vaxxers with speech. Same with flat-earthers. Same with fascists. You know what works? De-platforming them. Not giving them a voice in the public discourse. Not taking anti-vaxxers seriously and placing them at the same level as doctors because ''both sides'' and ''free speech''. What has been proven again and again is that bad information drives out good, because it's so, so much easier to w…
That's been proven? Where? Because at least anecdotally, I recall reading so many stories of people who were talked out of a cult by having better information presented to them.
Re: Twitter to ban political advertising
#728In Denmark we have laws in place that hold news paper editors responsible for printing truth. They don’t always succeed, but they try to, and when they do fail they admit it and apologise. This is what has kept our society well informed and critical thinking for a hundred years. It’s also allowed for different sides of things, because you can interpret things like socioeconomic statistics and facts differently and wr…
The lowest level of truth telling is stating facts, but even stating facts can be extremely manipulative. If I were to say: "2x as many white Americans were killed by police as black Americans in 2018." This a true fact. If I take note of the fact that black Americans only constitute 13% of the population, then I can say "A black American is 2.3x as likely as a white American to be killed by police." This is also a t…
> In America, we understand that there is absolutely nothing more dangerous than an entity that feels entitled to control what is true. It might make things easier, and it might actually produce better results so long as the entity doing so is competent and benevolent, but nearly every structure in America is meant to serve as a bulwark for the cases in which the entity in power is precisely the sort that you do not want to be making those decisions. And to be frank, Europe should probably be more wary of that.
I'm not trying to be snarky, but in all honesty, how do you feel this is working out for the US at this very moment?
Re: Twitter to ban political advertising
#729In Denmark we have laws in place that hold news paper editors responsible for printing truth. They don’t always succeed, but they try to, and when they do fail they admit it and apologise. This is what has kept our society well informed and critical thinking for a hundred years. It’s also allowed for different sides of things, because you can interpret things like socioeconomic statistics and facts differently and wr…
The lowest level of truth telling is stating facts, but even stating facts can be extremely manipulative. If I were to say: "2x as many white Americans were killed by police as black Americans in 2018." This a true fact. If I take note of the fact that black Americans only constitute 13% of the population, then I can say "A black American is 2.3x as likely as a white American to be killed by police." This is also a t…
This is just whataboutism. Banning political ads does not affect whether people can misrepresent truths. Preventing lies does not affect whether misrepresent truths.
However, banning political ads on Facebook does ban political ads on facebook, and banning lies does ban lies.
Tech is not some magical playground disconnected from reality. Time for SV to grow up and engage with society and politics - they’re not an “optional, inefficient” part of life.
Re: Twitter to ban political advertising
#730Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and when they do fail they admit it and apologise We have those laws in Poland too. They lie on front page and apologise with small font on the last page.
Interestingly enough, in Germany you are forced to use the same page and layout, leading to sometimes very visible retractions... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/9/9c/Bild_Gegendar... If you ask me, that‘s a good thing. If the stakes of an ad campaign with fake news or hate speech would be having to run a disproval campaign of the same size, on the same audience (if you are proven wrong) — I‘d be fine with…
Or you know, keep the lie because "publicly apologize for using the inaccurate “Polish Death Camps” phrase does not apply in Germany as it would curb freedom of speech." https://polandin.com/38606816/apology-for-polish-death-camps...