Live data from Hacker News

Twitter to ban political advertising

twitter.com

371–380 of 1001 posts

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#371
post #162

One thing about the first amendment is that it doesn't have conditions. This type of thing that Twitter is doing will be full of them, ie selectively defining what's political or not. The question is whether this is a lesser evil than allowing political ads but selectively blocking stuff with very broad and potentially inconsistent moderation rules. I personally think totally blocking is the easier of the two in term…

One other thing about the first amendment is that it doesn't apply to Twitter.

No, but I sure bet Twitter wants to have the Safe Harbor protections. By deciding (editing) what is posted on the site, they would seem to forfeit the protections.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#372
post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TV and print outlets already exercise discretion on what they allow. Are you under the impression that they do not? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/business/media/cnn-trump-...

CNN rejecting Trump ads is akin to Fox rejecting Warren ads given how they are politically aligned. Facebook is trying to be neutral here and let people (and journalists who will write on such ads) decide vs. trying to come in with their own judgment. This has been happening on TV/Print ads for decades now.

Fox News has rejected Trump ads too: https://time.com/5445246/fox-nbc-facebook-controversial-trum...

But go ahead and make this a partisan thing.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#373
I help run a digital political agency (with partner(s)). Still thinking through this but a few initial reactions that might provide a different perspective:

- I haven't found a lot of utility in Twitter outside of reaching really specific insiders/decision makers. In terms of direct response FB is far superior and FB also wins with targeting, reach, and the persuasion/recall studies we've done as well. That is to say TW doesn't get much if any of our client's budget. Seems some larger 'brand name' candidates get better direct response. Point is it's a small fraction of our digital spend, and I would guess far less than .5% of twitter's ad revenue.

- what about paid 'influencer' or social marketing ads? e.g. I pay person XX to post organically. Or the much larger problem of bots/fake/gamed content.

- TW seems to be (I can't quantify though maybe others can) to be either totally inept at reducing fake/gamed content at worst complicit because they need the growth from fake numbers. This seems like it has much larger impact than paid political advertising and should be the first thing to get serious about. This seems like if the goal is to lose weight cutting your nails probably isn't the first thing to do.

- I had a strong reaction reading Dorsey's tech points saying ML, micro-targeting are 'powerful and very effective for __ advertisers.' But to me it seems odd to make a differentiation that it's ok to use these 'extremely effective' tools to profitably 'target and force people to see their __ ad' while blocking political speech (to help this point I left political/commercial blank, try flipping them). TW will happily 'force people to see' ads for alcohol, sugar companies, etc and the point is it works, whether selling a politician or product or Disney if the tech is dangerous for politics why isn't dangerous for commerce (or where is the line in dangerous commerce)? IDK I think I have a different perspective on the fundamental importance of political speech than this group. But this seems like an odd argument to me. To that point of drawing political lines, what about a company advertising to sell copies of a racist book on replacement theory, which has been shown to correlate with recent rise of dangerous white nationalism (mass shooters buy the book) and externalities like electing Trump?

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks :)

Glad to help. Which one was it you wanted to know?

I think both / either work in this context, though it seems obvious the inmates running the asylum was the intention now you mention it.

I think inmates would be a good dysphemism for the legal department too.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which I cannot read in any way but “f-you, Facebook.” He was even more explicit: > For instance, it‘s not credible for us to say: “We’re working hard to stop people from gaming our systems to spread misleading info, buuut if someone pays us to target and force people to see their political ad…well...they can say whatever they want! ”

I'm skeptical of this. Is a private charity promoting an LGBT fundraiser a political ad? What about Fox News pushing an ad about how other news is fake. Or MSNBC pushing an ad about Russia collusion? Was the now infamous Gillette woke ad political? It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Yeah, "political" is a weasel word like "extremist." A view I like isn't political, it's just common sense or settled science, it's the other guy's views that are "political."

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#376
post #322

What defines a political ad? For example are prolife ads political, even if they mention no laws or politics? What about ads that do not mention politics but are targeted to influence policy? Seems like an ambiguous category except for outright promoting particular candidates and laws.

It's not that hard. The UK (and I believe most of Europe) has heavily regulated political advertising. Politicians can't advertise on billboards here, and TV slots are strictly regulated (and time-limited). I'm not entirely sure what criteria are used, but it seems to work reasonably well.

.. but not on the internet, which produced the current disaster.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#377
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People make this point every single time this comes up like they've contributed something interesting or new, it's exhausting. Almost as exhausting as people saying it's exhausting. >No one has said the constitution applied to Twitter. Everyone knows the first amendment applies to governments only. Odd way for the GP to open up an argument then. >One thing about the first amendment is that it doesn't have conditions…

> Odd way for the GP to open up an argument then. I am the OP and I specifically referenced the first amendment as an analogy to highlight the dangers of grey areas, which are the things the constitution avoids by making them absolute. Which is where all the risk remains with this sort of policy, and the reason why it's relevant to Twitter. Saying the first amendment doesn't apply to private companies is meaningless…

Tangentially invoking a hot-button issue like the first amendment is at best a tactical error in that it distracts from your actual point. In this case, your analogy is flat wrong because the first amendment actually does have lots of grey area (I mean, you can choose not to recognize the USSC's interpretation as valid, but it won't help). In response to your underlying argument about special cases being bad: tough. We don't have a choice. A finite policy can only ever be an approximation to justice.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#378

Whenever these topics come up, the comment section is full of people advocating for no limits based solely on slipper slope arguments: who is going to determine what is politcal? Who is going to determine what is true? But we all life with boundaries and we cope just fine. Why should this street in front of my house have a 35 MPH speed limit? What is special about 35? Why not 36? Why not 34? Who is to say that one is…

The concern is about categories, not magnitudes, though.

A better analogy would be a certain tax rate for "cars" and another lower one for "trucks" so as to not harm blue collar small businesses. We would start seeing more personal vehicles designed to be "trucks" even if they weren't used for large hauls or some sort of business purpose.

And, of course, we already see exactly that happen to car designs.

The argument is that the incentives are there to follow the letter of the law and abuse the spirit, putting less onerous personalities at a disadvantage.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#379
post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical of this. Is a private charity promoting an LGBT fundraiser a political ad? What about Fox News pushing an ad about how other news is fake. Or MSNBC pushing an ad about Russia collusion? Was the now infamous Gillette woke ad political? It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

"Political advertising" may be limited to advertising that is bought for by political campaigns and PACs, which they have a previously defined policy for: https://business.twitter.com/en/help/ads-policies/restricted... > The policy varies across markets but generally applies to ads that advocate for or against a candidate or political party, or ads by candidates and/or entities registered with their respective electo…

This is wrong. He also said issue ads would be blocked.
Post reply on HN