Live data from Hacker News

Twitter to ban political advertising

twitter.com

361–370 of 1001 posts

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which I cannot read in any way but “f-you, Facebook.” He was even more explicit: > For instance, it‘s not credible for us to say: “We’re working hard to stop people from gaming our systems to spread misleading info, buuut if someone pays us to target and force people to see their political ad…well...they can say whatever they want! ”

I'm skeptical of this. Is a private charity promoting an LGBT fundraiser a political ad? What about Fox News pushing an ad about how other news is fake. Or MSNBC pushing an ad about Russia collusion? Was the now infamous Gillette woke ad political? It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Based on what he said, I don't think any of those will be blocked. It sounds like it's talking about campaign ads specifically, whether that's for people or issues.

I'm sure it will be better defined in the final policy.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#362
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other thing about the first amendment is that it doesn't apply to Twitter.

People make this point every single time this comes up like they've contributed something interesting or new, it's exhausting. No one has said the constitution applied to Twitter. Everyone knows the first amendment applies to governments only. Yet free speech still has a huge cultural role in western countries that goes well beyond government charters, for very good reasons. That's the reason why it's embedded in law…

> Everyone knows the first amendment applies to governments only.

Not true in the slightest.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You bought a ticket to see a game, not a billboard. Absolutely. So let's get rid of advertising at games. Not just political advertising; all advertising. No Democratic or Republican ads, but also no Toyota or Chrysler ads, no Coors or Bud Light ads. Unfortunately, there's too much money at stake for that to ever happen. But political ads are different. I don't think Coors drinkers get offended when they see a Bud…

MLS teams are walking billboards. Ads subsidize the world, especially live sports events. Enjoy your 2000% base ticket price increases.

Are the base ticket prices based on cost, or on supply and demand?

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#364
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it? What if the government decides the earth is the center of the universe and imprisons the scientist who has observable proof that it isn’t? What’s if the government decides “encryption with backdoor is unsafe” is a false statement and suppresses all speech that says otherwise?

Slippery slope arguments like this are stupid because a government determined to be a bad actor isn't going to let a constitution stop them. Russia has a constitution, heck, Soviet Russia did. The reality of having laws against broadcasting lies is that they will be applied sensibly if the rest of the system is sensible - and if it is not, you have worse problems.

Slippery slope arguments take into consideration the very human capacity to become accustomed to a certain boundary, and then seek to push beyond that boundary. For good or ill, look at the progression of rights leading to the current transgender/feminist argument over what constitutes a woman. 50 years ago that would not have even been a discussion.

You would be hard-pressed to ever see a government give ground where once they have asserted authority. Only encroaching further into our rights.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#365
post #360

So why not use the same methodology on TV or print as well and ban political ads across? Why is social media singled out here? What about ads on YouTube? This is nothing but a copout solution. Twitter doesn't have the will nor the capital to be part of the debate here (and political ads are likely too small for them to care) - so they are trying to gain strategy credit by just saying this is a bad idea. NYTimes is ha…

TV and print outlets already exercise discretion on what they allow. Are you under the impression that they do not? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/business/media/cnn-trump-...

CNN rejecting Trump ads is akin to Fox rejecting Warren ads given how they are politically aligned. Facebook is trying to be neutral here and let people (and journalists who will write on such ads) decide vs. trying to come in with their own judgment. This has been happening on TV/Print ads for decades now.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#366
post #162

One thing about the first amendment is that it doesn't have conditions. This type of thing that Twitter is doing will be full of them, ie selectively defining what's political or not. The question is whether this is a lesser evil than allowing political ads but selectively blocking stuff with very broad and potentially inconsistent moderation rules. I personally think totally blocking is the easier of the two in term…

To be fair Twitter already has a lot of prohibitions in place for ads, many of them very subjective (e.g. Hateful Content and Inappropriate Content) so the free speech boat sailed a long time ago.

https://business.twitter.com/en/help/ads-policies/introducti...

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#367

Campaign finance is illegal in most of the first world. If political ads were banned in the US, politicians wouldn't need money to get reelected (Ads get the majority of votes.). When a politician needs money to get reelected they have to take money from lobbyists. Banning political ads is crucial linchpin to getting money out of politics.

Political ads are free speech.

There was a campaign finance law in 1971 that went all the way to the US Supreme Court. In Buckley v. Valeo, the US Supreme Court ruled that campaign finance laws are freedom of speech, in that without such laws, the every day person is restricted from being heard when the wealthy are allowed to use money beyond what the common person can pay. Because of this, the court upheld limits on contributions to candidates ruling campaign finance is legal, as long as it is limited to an amount everyone can participate in.

From the Supreme Court: "The Court affirmed a First Amendment interest in spending money to facilitate campaign speech, writing, "A restriction on the amount of money a person or group can spend on political communication during a campaign necessarily reduces the quantity of expression by restricting the number of issues discussed, the depth of their exploration, and the size of the audience reached." Further, the law's "$1,000 ceiling on spending 'relative to a clearly identified candidate,' would appear to exclude all citizens and groups except candidates, political parties, and the institutional press from any significant use of the most effective modes of communication."

The Court upheld limits on contributions to candidates.

For more information checkout: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckley_v._Valeo

edit: In 2002 there was another campaign finance law that went to the Supreme Court, again for freedom of speech. In McConnell v. FEC, the court ruled, "the need to control corruption overshadowes any minor threat to free speech".

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#368
post #162

One thing about the first amendment is that it doesn't have conditions. This type of thing that Twitter is doing will be full of them, ie selectively defining what's political or not. The question is whether this is a lesser evil than allowing political ads but selectively blocking stuff with very broad and potentially inconsistent moderation rules. I personally think totally blocking is the easier of the two in term…

The First Amendment is about government suppression of speech. Furthermore, deliberate lies are (legally) not legitimate speech.

> The First Amendment is about government suppression of speech

It is exactly that, but that doesn't actually end the real conversation people are trying to have.

Do we support the idea that the govt shouldn't restrict speech, but that we as society should? There are a lot of "chilling" effects seen in history.

On other hand, TOTALLY unrestricted speech is a completely different ball of wax, complete with plenty of hairballs in there. There's the ever-present (yet valid) "what about child porn", but there's also a lot of the issues that are arising in recent years with explicitly false statements and representations designed to influence the average person. Sure, such statements can't survive enough research, but it's easy enough to make it hard to research, to create conventional wisdom that is just wrong. Society where we cannot trust "facts" cannot sustain - it will fracture into separate societies in which trust CAN be held.

And on the gripping hand, we have those that argue for truly unrestricted speech in words, but actually just have confidence that their viewpoint will win out, not by virtue of reason and logic but by virtue of fear and hate.

When I was young, I believed in absolute free speech. I'd quote Voltaire, I'd defend any attempt to allow communication, even that which made me uncomfortable, but I did it for noble reasons. A lot of my more liberal views came about because I supported the efforts of those that made me uncomfortable to express themselves. Nowadays, despite those personal growths, having seen how much we CAN'T handle truly free speech, I'm much more hesitant.

Clearly excessive suppression of speech, be it from the govt or be it from society, is terrible. But now I'm horrified to see that truly restricted speech just empowers demagogues. It ends up not being truly free speech either, as it creates fear of reprisals that can't be proven. It promotes the name of speech while restricting the ideal.

We need to discuss what our true objective is. We can't find the line yet, perhaps we never will, but perhaps we can narrow down the grey area a bit.

But right now, we have the believers in unrestricted speech as a noble ideal, with users of unrestricted speech to restrict ideas hidden among them, arguing with those that are fine with the govt not restricting speech but wanting social protections, with a decently large group that is wondering if keeping the govt out fully and leaving it to social repercussions is perhaps flawed that also joins in.

Saying "the first amendment only restricts the govt" is a fine statement about the current law. It doesn't address anyone's actual concerns though.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#369
ads are nothing but propaganda, someone trying to sell something it could be good or bad.

I see twitter where there are fake profiles and their posts. twitter allows anyone to register with a fake email using services like mailinator and continue spreading lies. They should be banned.

I think ads are okay as we have been manipulated by ads via media newspaper etc. no one questions them, what about the news reporter who is biased and writes news like the ads. Atleast the ads we know are ads and sane person can determine based on history that ads are not truth.

Re: Twitter to ban political advertising

#370
post #322

What defines a political ad? For example are prolife ads political, even if they mention no laws or politics? What about ads that do not mention politics but are targeted to influence policy? Seems like an ambiguous category except for outright promoting particular candidates and laws.

It's not that hard. The UK (and I believe most of Europe) has heavily regulated political advertising. Politicians can't advertise on billboards here, and TV slots are strictly regulated (and time-limited). I'm not entirely sure what criteria are used, but it seems to work reasonably well.

The entire problem in the UK is that digital ads are almost completely unregulated (or regulated so pathetically as to be unregulated).

If facebook follow this, that would be a massive step in the right direction.

Post reply on HN