Live data from Hacker News

Thank You, Guido

blog.dropbox.com

321–330 of 388 posts

Re: Thank You, Guido

#321
post #16

Did you notice this: "He has already put into motion the conversion of the Dropbox server code from Python 2 to Python 3." Even the company that hired Guido is still heavily dependent on Python 2, and it doesn't surprise me at all; my own employer still has a lot of it in internal tools.

Dropbox could be much more dependent on Python 2 than the average user, because from what I've read, they use a heavily modified version of the interpreter for obfuscation purposes (e.g. scrambling of opcodes). On internal projects, that is likely to be different, of course.

Re: Thank You, Guido

#322
post #22

I hated C++ and Matlab as an undergraduate. Hell, I hated programming as a whole - and effectively swear never to write a line of code once I was done with my BSc in Physics. Then, at work, I was introduced to Python. It was so...obvious, for lack of a better world. It was like a language I always knew that never spoke before. I'm now a software engineer, write Python almost all day, and looking back to the 18-year o…

Interesting. I myself come form an Software Engineering background, and started programming very young in Logo (a LISP derivate), then BASIC, C, C++, Java, Ruby and a bunch of others. I have hated programming in Python every time I have had to do it (several times through my career). It I think the only language that I have really hated ... the language itself. I've done Z80 and 8086 assembly, I've done Prolog, I've…

I think it is about the thinking process of the person, I assume you are >35, you grew up at a time that people were think about the performance more than the readability, that was the bottleneck back then.

Now that you have bigger systems and more complex requirements and cheap high performance computing, the balance is tipped.

And because python is (almost) on the opposite side of the spectrum for your thinking process, you might have a harder time wrapping your head around why it does something in a particular way.

I think this is also true for Haskell evangelists over here also, I think they started acquiring the programming mindset through advanced math(in my experience most have PhDs) etc., so haskell fits the way they solve a problem in their head the best.

For me personally it is Python, the delay between solving a problem and having it translated to python in my head is slim. You probably feel the same way about your own favourite programming language, because it is the tool that makes you most productive with the least effort.

Re: Thank You, Guido

#323
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Python 2 had hit the perfect balance of "just enough but not too much" which I'm very deeply worried that Python 3 is going to deviate from.

Python 3 is barely different in my experience and it's been about 10 years at this point. I do enjoy some of the "new" features of python 3.

Not very different, but fallout from the Unicode switch is quite a headache.

I generally run with LANG=C, and run into Python3 issues regularly as a result.

Also, if you have to support 'async' code that someone wrote, that could be a heavy load as well.

Re: Thank You, Guido

#324
I'm travelling with poor cellular connection and it took me 10 minutes to load this page, while I could load and read content on HN perfectly fine. The text content loaded LAST. That website is terrible.

Re: Thank You, Guido

#325
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I myself come form an Software Engineering background, and started programming very young in Logo (a LISP derivate), then BASIC, C, C++, Java, Ruby and a bunch of others. I have hated programming in Python every time I have had to do it (several times through my career). It I think the only language that I have really hated ... the language itself. I've done Z80 and 8086 assembly, I've done Prolog, I've…

I think it is about the thinking process of the person, I assume you are >35, you grew up at a time that people were think about the performance more than the readability, that was the bottleneck back then. Now that you have bigger systems and more complex requirements and cheap high performance computing, the balance is tipped. And because python is (almost) on the opposite side of the spectrum for your thinking pro…

> For me personally it is Python, the delay between solving a problem and having it translated to python in my head is slim. You probably feel the same way about your own favourite programming language.

I feel that with Ruby, which I do a lot nowadays and love

WIth regards to Python, it is the things like having to write 'self' on each class method, having spaces as part of the language syntax, inconsistent Object orientation (len(string)?? instead of string.len ) and the neverending Python 2 vs 3 pain.

Re: Thank You, Guido

#326
> When asked, I would give people my opinion that maintainable code is more important than clever code. If I encountered clever code that was particularly cryptic, and I had to do some maintenance on it, I would probably rewrite it.

It would be great to see some examples of this rewriting. I feel that we see a lot of examples of converting repetitive code to terse code, but fewer examples of "de-clevering" code.

Re: Thank You, Guido

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I myself come form an Software Engineering background, and started programming very young in Logo (a LISP derivate), then BASIC, C, C++, Java, Ruby and a bunch of others. I have hated programming in Python every time I have had to do it (several times through my career). It I think the only language that I have really hated ... the language itself. I've done Z80 and 8086 assembly, I've done Prolog, I've…

I'm not sure how you can be annoyed by Python, but not by VB.

> I'm not sure how you can be annoyed by Python, but not by VB.

I think it might be that back when I worked with it I was young and did not know better. Nowadays I assume that if someone put me to do something in VB6 it will be super painful.

Re: Thank You, Guido

#328

To be honest, it is a sad moment, but it was expected. When Guido resigned from BDFL, I knew that it was the beginning of the end. And lets be honest, he's earned it. Thank you Guido, after learning Python, I never looked back, and it has been the source of great joy for me over the last decade.

Is he retiring only from Dropbox or he is retiring also from the Python committee (or whatever it is call)?

Yeah, he already did step down from being the BDFL.

PSF now has an elected steering council to replace him.

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-Jul...

Re: Thank You, Guido

#329
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java is paid platform without clear pricing, licensing and patents.

Many (most) JDK distributions are free for all usages and fully open source. Can you give some references for the patents issue you mentioned?

So you agreed pricing and licensing is not clear? If still not, here is the source https://upperedge.com/knowledge-center/documents/oracle-podc... As for the patents I don't have a source quickly available. Pricing and licensing are already bad enough. If I sell java based software, customers have to worry about licensing from Oracle. If I sell SaS I have to worry for what and how to pay. Those factors are big risks.

Re: Thank You, Guido

#330
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is about the thinking process of the person, I assume you are >35, you grew up at a time that people were think about the performance more than the readability, that was the bottleneck back then. Now that you have bigger systems and more complex requirements and cheap high performance computing, the balance is tipped. And because python is (almost) on the opposite side of the spectrum for your thinking pro…

> For me personally it is Python, the delay between solving a problem and having it translated to python in my head is slim. You probably feel the same way about your own favourite programming language. I feel that with Ruby, which I do a lot nowadays and love WIth regards to Python, it is the things like having to write 'self' on each class method, having spaces as part of the language syntax, inconsistent Object or…

Python and Ruby although in the same category have still different mindset. It is understandable the way you think fits Ruby more.

I tried to learn ruby and was put off by all the magic, last value calculated is magically returned, the useful but cryptic method calls.

It is shorter and more implicit, I like the explicit approach more.

to give you my perspective on the points you made:

- self: more explicit, I would prefer to write it, because there is classmethod(with cls) and staticmethod(without any) params.

- spaces vs. braces: I don't hate braces, but spaces makes it more readable, less things I see(whitespace vs. {}) the less distracted my eyes are from the the characters that do the actual work, you get used to it, I like it more to be honest.

- len(string) vs. string.length: again, no preference, I am used to both.

- py 2 vs py 3: it is not never ending, I helped move a 170K Django project from Django 1.6 to Django 2.1 and python 2.7.4 to 3.6 in a span of a year, we were mainly 3 people working on it on the side, our work was not even in the sprints, 2 senior engineers + 1 really good QA & deployment engineer, it took 1 year because the platform was business critical and we incrementally fixed stuff. At this moment whoever still runs py2 either has been lazy, does not care about technical debt or their business does not value solving technical debt, so they can not allocate time to do it. This is my opinion, might be wrong, maybe there are other reasons also. But the change had to be done for the health and longterm viability of the language.

Post reply on HN