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Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

miamiherald.com

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Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#251

Post by arbitrage »

EpicEng wrote: post #68
arbitrage wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The criminal justice / mental health field being what it is, I do not find it surprising in the least that a reviled kiddie-fucker would be allowed, by several levels of people involved, 15 minutes alone, along with plausibly accidental access to a means to kill themselves. The breaking of the hyoid bone is, in fact, not uncommon in hangings. Nor is the breaking of the cartilage. Nor is hemorrhaging in the face or ey…

>The breaking of the hyoid bone is, in fact, not uncommon in hangings. Nor is the breaking of the cartilage. Nor is hemorrhaging in the face or eyes. You're directly contradicting an expect here. Have any sources to back that up?

And you're blithely accepting the word of an expert who was paid to investigate the official autopsy, on behalf of Epstein's brother?

Have any sources, etc.?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#252

Post by mistermann »

matt4077 wrote: post #204
jolesf wrote: post #46

This is a rabbit hole that I'm not endorsing just sharing the link https://twitter.com/LibertyBlitz/status/1148259553621864449

You can't just advertise whatever loony accusations your link goes to (I didn't click) and absolve yourself of responsibility. That's the old "I'm just asking questions..." shtick.

Does the safety of young girls concern you at all, speaking of responsibility.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#253

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #224
commandlinefan wrote: post #143

When Edward Snowden “revealed” that the NSA had been spying on us for decades, I was shocked that anybody was shocked. After all, we’ve known that for a long time - people had been SAYING that for a long time. I realized after the Snowden leaks that most people actually thought they were joking when they said that the NSA was spying on all of us: “har har, as if that could ever happen”. It’s become increasingly clear…

So, I was one of the people who read a lot about purported state surveillance before Snowden, and was still "shocked" by what he revealed. It's simple really: while Slashdot commenters et al had been murmuring about Echelon and the NSA for years already, there was no evidence , and therefore no way to sort out the fantasy from the reality. The shocking part was (a) that the reality turned out to be even more pervasiv…

> It's simple really: while Slashdot commenters et al had been murmuring about Echelon and the NSA for years already, there was no evidence.

Does the European Parliament's 2000 ECHELON report not count? I would say that there was plenty of evidence around, but the attacks of September 11 simply obscured the prior debates about telecommunications privacy in press coverage.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#255

Post by jpfr »

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #203
cwkoss wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of Epstein, it appears that NY Dept of Corrections and the coroner must both be colluding to make the suicide narrative plausible. There must be some level of coordinated pressure exerted on both of these offices for neither to highlight the inconsistencies. What would be more concerning: a governmental agency or a non-governmental organization having this kind of power?

When two Saudi teenagers were found bound together in the Hudson had their deaths ruled a suicide, my confidence in the integrity NYC coroners office died. https://www.thedailybeast.com/two-saudi-sisters-found-dead-i... https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/03/us/saudi-sisters-hudson-river...

Classifying obvious murders as suicide often happens if intelligence services have a stake in the investigation. That doesn't mean they want to bury the case. They could try to do an investigation above the "pay grade" of the local cops who otherwise would have a mandate.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#257

Post by d1zzy »

air7 wrote: post #165

I'm don't buy into conspiracy theories and am a firm advocate for Hanlon's razor but this story is really hard to swallow. This is the passage from the relevant Wikipedia article: > The jail informed the Justice Department, when Epstein was placed in the special housing unit, that he would have a cellmate and that a guard would look into the cell every 30 minutes. These procedures were not followed on the night he di…

That's only extraordinary if you assume that:

- those cameras functioned before that night, when they might as well have been broken for months and/or often broke

- moving cellmates very rarely results in not having someone else move in in the same day

- guards don't usually sleep on their shifts

If however, you assume the much more likely situation that the cameras were already broken or often broke, that guards pretty much always sleep on their shifts and don't follow procedure, and that cellmates are often moved out without a replacement, then it stops looking very unlikely. Then it's just a case of selection, the fact that Epstein succeeded in killing himself means he had the opportunity to do it, meaning the fact that we look into the situation after he has successfully killed himself implies all those things that need to happen for that to be possible likely did happen.

It's like finding bugs in complex multi-layered systems (think airplanes), it's not sufficient for one thing to fail to get a catastrophe, but a multitude of failures combined. And in this case that doesn't seem unlikely at all unless we get more data as to how statistically unlikely each of the listed conditions are normally in that prison.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#258

Post by paulcole »

ScottFree wrote: post #235
paulcole wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's a weak argument. One conspiracy theory was proven false so they must all be false? Does that apply to scientific studies, too?

Pardon the bluntness, but your argument is equally weak.

> Whenever I hear an overwhelming chorus of "that's conspiracy theory!" what I hear is "don't look too closely! You might find something!"

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#259

Post by CommieBobDole »

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #203
cwkoss wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of Epstein, it appears that NY Dept of Corrections and the coroner must both be colluding to make the suicide narrative plausible. There must be some level of coordinated pressure exerted on both of these offices for neither to highlight the inconsistencies. What would be more concerning: a governmental agency or a non-governmental organization having this kind of power?

When two Saudi teenagers were found bound together in the Hudson had their deaths ruled a suicide, my confidence in the integrity NYC coroners office died. https://www.thedailybeast.com/two-saudi-sisters-found-dead-i... https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/03/us/saudi-sisters-hudson-river...

Well, they were apparently being abused by their family, had applied unsuccessfully for asylum, and were (or thought they were) about to be deported to Saudi Arabia. They had told people that they would kill themselves if they were forced to go back. They had spent weeks maxing out their credit cards staying in luxury hotels and shopping. They had run out of money the day before they died, and were seen hours before their bodies were found at a park on the bank of the river praying. Also they weren't bound in any way that would have caused them to drown - they had apparently taped themselves together, possibly to keep their bodies from floating apart.

I mean, it's possible that they were murdered. But it's not unreasonable to conclude from the available facts that it was suicide. Do you have access to additional facts that would dispute that conclusion?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#260

Post by bvhg3 »

paulcole wrote: post #208
ScottFree wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm don't buy into conspiracy theories I do. How many "conspiracy theories" have we lived through in tech? I can name two right off the top of my head: prism and carnivore. Whenever there's an overwhelming chorus of "that's conspiracy theory!" what I hear is "don't look too closely! You might find something!"

[flagged]

The general dismissal of "conspiracy theories" as being categorically untrue and the realm of insane people is such a tired notion. Happily for the power structure, it is the very notion they hope we all parrot. Countless comments here and in similar threads start with some preamble about not believing in conspiracy theories, but...

People all over the world are engaged in conspiracies. A theory is an attempt to understand a complex reality. Anybody who thinks that governments ever cover up wrong-doing is a conspiracy theorist. Do you believe that your government ever lied about something? This whole insistence on not bearing the "label" is so mind-numbing. Can we get past the superficiality of name-calling and talk about reality?

Of course, we sit around and say conspiracy theories can't possibly be true because of vaccine+autism and flat earth. End of story. Well it turns out there are links between vaccines and developmental disorders, but maybe those fears are overblown by scared parents (yeah, don't look too closely). You can argue that it's a worthwhile risk to take for the preservation of civilization. But to say there is no link is false.

The world is full horror being perpetrated by powerful people. But we were taught by the evening news that conspiracists are whackos. One thing I've learned is that if the media repeats something over and over again in order to imprint it into your brain, it's probably because there is an agenda behind it and not because it's the good old truth.

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