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The crisis in physics is not only about physics

backreaction.blogspot.com

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Re: The crisis in physics is not only about physics

#11

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

knzhou wrote: post #8

As usual with Sabine, this article blatantly misrepresents how science is done and how actual scientists think, and serves mainly to portray herself as the only person in the field capable of rational thought. People in the comments here are picking up on this when it takes an unfair swipe at medicine, but it really applies to the whole article. I am not going to bother doing a line-by-line rebuttal, because I've alr…

Not being familiar with this author, the biggest reason I dismissed it is because I didn't see any kind of honest discussion that, well, maybe fundamental particle physics is just harder now, in that that next step of what can be probed by experiments isn't actually possible by humans, now or really ever (e.g. requiring a particle accelerator with the radius of Pluto's orbit, etc.)

So instead you get all this hand-wringing about the process, about how theorists come up with elegant math that isn't testable, yada yada, without at least an honest statement that "It is at least possible that the universe's final secrets will never be amenable to human inquiry."

Re: The crisis in physics is not only about physics

#12

Post by xpuente »

qnsi wrote: post #9
knzhou wrote: post #8

As usual with Sabine, this article blatantly misrepresents how science is done and how actual scientists think, and serves mainly to portray herself as the only person in the field capable of rational thought. People in the comments here are picking up on this when it takes an unfair swipe at medicine, but it really applies to the whole article. I am not going to bother doing a line-by-line rebuttal, because I've alr…

Seriously, this quote „I am the only physicist who has at least come up with an idea for what to do.” Seemed pretty arrogant. But I have no knowledge of her

Kevin was also pretty arrogant, but when you see is a newcomer to the field, it is understandable.

Re: The crisis in physics is not only about physics

#13

Post by Barrin92 »

knzhou wrote: post #8

As usual with Sabine, this article blatantly misrepresents how science is done and how actual scientists think, and serves mainly to portray herself as the only person in the field capable of rational thought. People in the comments here are picking up on this when it takes an unfair swipe at medicine, but it really applies to the whole article. I am not going to bother doing a line-by-line rebuttal, because I've alr…

> As usual with Sabine, this article blatantly misrepresents how science is done and how actual scientists think

No offence but she is a trained physicist so she too is an 'actual scientist' by the very definition of the term. And she's completely right about the neglect of economic reasoning. The arguments against blowing 40 billion bucks on an accelerator that will likely not surface anything new is valid. Physicists gotta accept that opportunity costs are real.

And the 'canary in the coalmine' point in particular in regards to pharmaceuticals is valid too. The research costs for very specialised, small scale drugs has exploded by a magnitude or two depending on who you ask. Other fields are starting to suffer as well.

I would go even further than she does and say it's an almost universal condition of modern research. We see diminishing returns everywhere, and if this is not stopped and we don't manage to drastically increase the efficacy of scientific research we'll effectively flatline at some point.

Almost any material hard metrics you look at like life expectancy, economic growth or whatever you could consider a sign of technological advancement, even tens of billions in investment seem to produce only marginal improvements. We are not living in the golden age of science.

Re: The crisis in physics is not only about physics

#14

Post by H8crilA »

knzhou wrote: post #8

As usual with Sabine, this article blatantly misrepresents how science is done and how actual scientists think, and serves mainly to portray herself as the only person in the field capable of rational thought. People in the comments here are picking up on this when it takes an unfair swipe at medicine, but it really applies to the whole article. I am not going to bother doing a line-by-line rebuttal, because I've alr…

One thing that bothers me is that indeed it has been resolving inconsistencies that often lead to progress, as the author points out. What would you say to that? What are the still unresolved inconsistencies in physics? To me it feels more like that we just mostly ran out of the obvious inconsistencies to resolve.

Re: The crisis in physics is not only about physics

#16

Post by Robotbeat »

H8crilA wrote: post #14
knzhou wrote: post #8

As usual with Sabine, this article blatantly misrepresents how science is done and how actual scientists think, and serves mainly to portray herself as the only person in the field capable of rational thought. People in the comments here are picking up on this when it takes an unfair swipe at medicine, but it really applies to the whole article. I am not going to bother doing a line-by-line rebuttal, because I've alr…

One thing that bothers me is that indeed it has been resolving inconsistencies that often lead to progress, as the author points out. What would you say to that? What are the still unresolved inconsistencies in physics? To me it feels more like that we just mostly ran out of the obvious inconsistencies to resolve.

Dark matter, dark energy, quantum gravity.

Re: The crisis in physics is not only about physics

#17

Post by pxhb »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #11
knzhou wrote: post #8

As usual with Sabine, this article blatantly misrepresents how science is done and how actual scientists think, and serves mainly to portray herself as the only person in the field capable of rational thought. People in the comments here are picking up on this when it takes an unfair swipe at medicine, but it really applies to the whole article. I am not going to bother doing a line-by-line rebuttal, because I've alr…

Not being familiar with this author, the biggest reason I dismissed it is because I didn't see any kind of honest discussion that, well, maybe fundamental particle physics is just harder now, in that that next step of what can be probed by experiments isn't actually possible by humans, now or really ever (e.g. requiring a particle accelerator with the radius of Pluto's orbit, etc.) So instead you get all this hand-wr…

(Note also not familiar with the author)

I think that I mostly agree with the theme of your post. An important thing to keep in mind is that physics is inherently an experimental science, so the critique of formulating untestable theories is valid. I have heard that cosmology is particularly bad about this, however I am not in that field...so who knows.

Re: The crisis in physics is not only about physics

#18

Post by trixie_ »

It feels from the outside, academic research is performed by an individual or small group that culminates into a paper at the end. When attacking large problems in physics or biology this seems short sighted. A potentially better way would be to attack the problem in an organized manner with teams researching various aspects of the problem and building off of each other. Remove the whole 'paper writing/journal article' from the equation and just keep moving forward. Does this exist? Are teams of researchers coordinated from a high level and moving through problem spaces with clear direction? Or is everyone working on their small piece, trying to get their bit of credit?

Re: The crisis in physics is not only about physics

#19

Post by roywiggins »

H8crilA wrote: post #14
knzhou wrote: post #8

As usual with Sabine, this article blatantly misrepresents how science is done and how actual scientists think, and serves mainly to portray herself as the only person in the field capable of rational thought. People in the comments here are picking up on this when it takes an unfair swipe at medicine, but it really applies to the whole article. I am not going to bother doing a line-by-line rebuttal, because I've alr…

One thing that bothers me is that indeed it has been resolving inconsistencies that often lead to progress, as the author points out. What would you say to that? What are the still unresolved inconsistencies in physics? To me it feels more like that we just mostly ran out of the obvious inconsistencies to resolve.

GR and QM are incompatible.

https://www.askamathematician.com/2009/12/q-howwhy-are-quant...

Re: The crisis in physics is not only about physics

#20

Post by cryptica »

knzhou wrote: post #8

As usual with Sabine, this article blatantly misrepresents how science is done and how actual scientists think, and serves mainly to portray herself as the only person in the field capable of rational thought. People in the comments here are picking up on this when it takes an unfair swipe at medicine, but it really applies to the whole article. I am not going to bother doing a line-by-line rebuttal, because I've alr…

Having worked with scientists and mathematicians with PhDs, I can relate to the notion that they could have difficulties when it comes to identifying what is important and what to focus on. Their lack of eagerness to find real-world applications for their substantial skills is perhaps what had allowed them to stay at university and keep studying for so many years in the first place.

It's no coincidence that, on the other end of the spectrum, a lot of successful entrepreneurs could barely stay in college long enough to get their bachelor's degree.

I'm not sure if "eagerness to efficiently apply one's skills" is something that can be taught but it could certainly be incentivized.

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