Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says • Hacker News Board

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#161

Post by logfromblammo » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

542458 wrote: post #19

mikece wrote: post #2

I tend to be very skeptical of claims of conspiracy and conspiracy theories in general but I've yet to hear a reasonable theory to explain how Epstein could have killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility. A friend in law enforcement related a story about someone on suicide watch who managed to kill himself by eating/shoving massive amount of toilet paper down his throat and the…

> killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility Ken White (famous-ish lawyer and notable internet personality) puts it this way: "But your assessment of plausibility is based on your assumptions about how the system works. Those assumptions are, mostly, wrong — naive Dick-Wolf-level law-enforcement-are-competent-good-guys stuff". Prisons, particularly american prisons, are full of…

Ken White == Popehat.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#162

Post by tootie » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #108

542458 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility Ken White (famous-ish lawyer and notable internet personality) puts it this way: "But your assessment of plausibility is based on your assumptions about how the system works. Those assumptions are, mostly, wrong — naive Dick-Wolf-level law-enforcement-are-competent-good-guys stuff". Prisons, particularly american prisons, are full of…

The two broken cameras must have been incompetent as well then. Not suggesting a conspiracy, but I wouldn't call it that anyway. Maybe it was just a crime.

From what I've read, the two broken cameras story is just that "two of the many cameras in the area" were broken. At least one camera was actively recording the area outside his cell and they have the footage and it doesn't show anything interesting.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#163

Post by Haga » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

code_duck wrote: post #60

claudeganon wrote: post #36

Epstein’s death seems the most overt taunt about ruling class impunity in my lifetime. Not only in its circumstances, but in the kind of shifting, threadbare cover stories about everyone with whom he was associated. Bill Gates, for example, had staff overlap between his foundation and Epstein, (including one who was named in Epstein’s will!) and was able to diminish these connections in major media outlets with almos…

Epstein's ability to carry in his activities with near impunity during his life seems even more shocking to me. Pretty much everyone knew what this guy was doing for decades.

Omerta is something beautiful. You drag everyone new to the party and the social connector can silence you, because you associated.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#164

Post by sveme » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #86

542458 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility Ken White (famous-ish lawyer and notable internet personality) puts it this way: "But your assessment of plausibility is based on your assumptions about how the system works. Those assumptions are, mostly, wrong — naive Dick-Wolf-level law-enforcement-are-competent-good-guys stuff". Prisons, particularly american prisons, are full of…

Yep. The hard conspiracy theory - that some rich agent with something to lose took determined action to subvert the prison's protections and assassinate him - doesn't hold water for me. I am, however, willing to entertain the softer conspiracy theory - that people in prison (prisoners and staff) hate pedophiles and people who enable pedophilia, and the guy was, perhaps, given more opportunity than average to "fix his…

A semi-soft conspiracy theory could also be that other inmates were paid to make it happen.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#165

Post by air7 » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

I'm don't buy into conspiracy theories and am a firm advocate for Hanlon's razor but this story is really hard to swallow. This is the passage from the relevant Wikipedia article:

> The jail informed the Justice Department, when Epstein was placed in the special housing unit, that he would have a cellmate and that a guard would look into the cell every 30 minutes. These procedures were not followed on the night he died.[4] On August 9, Epstein's cellmate was transferred out, and no new replacement cellmate was brought in. Later in the evening, in violation of the jail's normal procedure, Epstein was not checked every 30 minutes.[4] The two guards who were assigned to check his cell overnight fell asleep for about three hours.[21] Two cameras in front of Epstein's cell also malfunctioned that night.[5]

Also assuming it's true one might expect, given the gravitas of this case, that the multiple people responsible for such gross negligence would be prosecuted and brought to light and justice.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#166

Post by cc81 » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

moltensodium wrote: post #107

Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all supposed to move on and share links about suicide awareness is utter nonsense. If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time. Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

What if it just was a suicide?

If he had dirt on people would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Especially if there was a failed murder attempt just weeks before?

And what stops the victims of naming names now? And what would have stopped Epstein of just not talking and just denying?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#167

Post by hinkley » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #143

When Edward Snowden “revealed” that the NSA had been spying on us for decades, I was shocked that anybody was shocked. After all, we’ve known that for a long time - people had been SAYING that for a long time. I realized after the Snowden leaks that most people actually thought they were joking when they said that the NSA was spying on all of us: “har har, as if that could ever happen”. It’s become increasingly clear…

I think the trick with social progress is not in getting people to be aware of a shocking problem, any shocking problem, it's what to do with that energy once it exists.

Which is why Greanpeace and PETA are a joke, but the Nature Conservancy, EFF, and the ASPCA are less so.

Almost anyone can learn to piss people off. We often call them 'assholes'. Turning that energy to something requires leadership.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#168

Post by ScottFree » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:46 PM UTC

air7 wrote: post #165

I'm don't buy into conspiracy theories and am a firm advocate for Hanlon's razor but this story is really hard to swallow. This is the passage from the relevant Wikipedia article: > The jail informed the Justice Department, when Epstein was placed in the special housing unit, that he would have a cellmate and that a guard would look into the cell every 30 minutes. These procedures were not followed on the night he di…

> I'm don't buy into conspiracy theories

I do. How many "conspiracy theories" have we lived through in tech? I can name two right off the top of my head: prism and carnivore.

Whenever there's an overwhelming chorus of "that's conspiracy theory!" what I hear is "don't look too closely! You might find something!"

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#169

Post by libraryatnight » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:46 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #150

metalliqaz wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I buy that "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" line. People are tribal and will fight tooth and nail to defend their tribe's beliefs, no matter how little it applies to themselves. People know they will never be rich. Almost everyone knows that. I think it's more accurate to say that Americans have poor education in civics and finance, and cling to near-religious dogma as a result.

> People know they will never be rich. Almost everyone knows that. I don't think the average American knows that until they hit 40, hence the midlife crisis.

As a middle-class person, when I talk to other middle-class people, many make decisions/vote like they are going to be wealthy some day. Actively arguing against their own interests out of this weird fear that it would someday bite them when it's their wealth being taxed etc.

one of the best protections the wealthy have in the US is the poor and middle class voting based on an imagined and unlikely future for themselves.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#170

Post by cc81 » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

apetresc wrote: post #96

shadowgovt wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. The hard conspiracy theory - that some rich agent with something to lose took determined action to subvert the prison's protections and assassinate him - doesn't hold water for me. I am, however, willing to entertain the softer conspiracy theory - that people in prison (prisoners and staff) hate pedophiles and people who enable pedophilia, and the guy was, perhaps, given more opportunity than average to "fix his…

Maybe in some more run-of-the-mill cases, sure. But even the dimmest staff member must have been well aware that this particular pedophile was on the verge of testifying against an entire network of other pedophiles. If you hate pedophiles so much you're willing to risk your life/career just to let one of them commit suicide, surely you also hate them enough to wait just a little bit longer to prevent a bunch more of…

Why do you think he would witness against anyone? He didn't do that last time as far as I know.

And IF people thought he had dirt on people then I would assume he would at least have a basic dead mans switch that would send out the dirt to the press in case of death; to prevent assassinations. Especially if there was an earlier attempt.