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Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

miamiherald.com

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Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#81

Post by trickstra »

mc32 wrote: post #14
mikece wrote: post #2

I tend to be very skeptical of claims of conspiracy and conspiracy theories in general but I've yet to hear a reasonable theory to explain how Epstein could have killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility. A friend in law enforcement related a story about someone on suicide watch who managed to kill himself by eating/shoving massive amount of toilet paper down his throat and the…

Yeah I’m also skeptical of improbable theories... but this one looks, I mean looks, too convenient. Cameras go offline, taken off suicide watch... even if it wasn’t someone physically doing him in, they can drive him to do it by psychological means. This was one of the highest profile cases in the last decade. That they didn’t have him watched 24x7 is incredible gross negligence or more. I mean you have low level cri…

That's because you never hear about the cameras that go offline when nothing interesting happened. It's probably very common.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#82

Post by shadowgovt »

542458 wrote: post #52
octopoc wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epstein had also been taken off suicide watch nine days earlier. That's a big reason why this is so suspicious.

It's actually fairly normal to not keep people on suicide watch for very long. Full-blown suicide watch is expensive, but furthermore can stress a patient to the point of actually encouraging suicide. Being unable to sleep because your cell lights are kept on 24/7 and you're constantly getting checked on, the humiliation of having to wear a suicide smock, not having sheets on your bed, etc. You can argue that this is…

Epstein himself was also a consummate con-man and sociopath. If he'd resolved to kill himself, he'd know the things to say to exit suicide watch as smoothly and cleanly as possible.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#83

Post by not_a_cop75 »

octopoc wrote: post #47
542458 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility Ken White (famous-ish lawyer and notable internet personality) puts it this way: "But your assessment of plausibility is based on your assumptions about how the system works. Those assumptions are, mostly, wrong — naive Dick-Wolf-level law-enforcement-are-competent-good-guys stuff". Prisons, particularly american prisons, are full of…

> Epstein had also been taken off suicide watch nine days earlier. That's a big reason why this is so suspicious.

Why should we be so surprised that it could be so easy to kill someone inside a prison? It happens all the time.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#84

Post by chrischen »

metalliqaz wrote: post #51
claudeganon wrote: post #36

Epstein’s death seems the most overt taunt about ruling class impunity in my lifetime. Not only in its circumstances, but in the kind of shifting, threadbare cover stories about everyone with whom he was associated. Bill Gates, for example, had staff overlap between his foundation and Epstein, (including one who was named in Epstein’s will!) and was able to diminish these connections in major media outlets with almos…

I think the Panama Papers still has it beat.

I feel ike for that Americans feel like temporarily embarrassed millionaires, but not necessarily temporarily embarrassed underage sex traffickers .

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#85

Post by bryanrasmussen »

claudeganon wrote: post #36

Epstein’s death seems the most overt taunt about ruling class impunity in my lifetime. Not only in its circumstances, but in the kind of shifting, threadbare cover stories about everyone with whom he was associated. Bill Gates, for example, had staff overlap between his foundation and Epstein, (including one who was named in Epstein’s will!) and was able to diminish these connections in major media outlets with almos…

To paraphrase Watchmen I think we can take Gates off the list of suspects, it just doesn't seem his style.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#86

Post by shadowgovt »

542458 wrote: post #19
mikece wrote: post #2

I tend to be very skeptical of claims of conspiracy and conspiracy theories in general but I've yet to hear a reasonable theory to explain how Epstein could have killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility. A friend in law enforcement related a story about someone on suicide watch who managed to kill himself by eating/shoving massive amount of toilet paper down his throat and the…

> killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility Ken White (famous-ish lawyer and notable internet personality) puts it this way: "But your assessment of plausibility is based on your assumptions about how the system works. Those assumptions are, mostly, wrong — naive Dick-Wolf-level law-enforcement-are-competent-good-guys stuff". Prisons, particularly american prisons, are full of…

Yep. The hard conspiracy theory - that some rich agent with something to lose took determined action to subvert the prison's protections and assassinate him - doesn't hold water for me.

I am, however, willing to entertain the softer conspiracy theory - that people in prison (prisoners and staff) hate pedophiles and people who enable pedophilia, and the guy was, perhaps, given more opportunity than average to "fix his own problem" by a staff that wasn't going to shed a tear over a dead pedo.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#87

Post by dorkwood »

x220 wrote: post #42
bsamuels wrote: post #5

I'm fascinated by the idea that someone could have killed and successfully covered up a murder this high profile. How do you handle the guards? How do you keep the other inmates quiet? Can you get away with bribing a single guard or is a larger operation needed? If you bribe people, how do you get the money to them? How do you keep them quiet when the inevitable investigation happens? I don't think it's impossible, b…

Bribe the two guards with cash. Threaten to kill them and their families if they talk. It's pretty straightforward. Most people think that they are good people and would do the right thing in this situation, even though most people have no reason whatsoever to believe that they would act morally right if it became a serious sacrifice.

I’m not the parent commenter, but even this seems less straightforward than you’re making out.

For example, how do you know which guards are assigned to Epstein’s cell, and how do you get in contact with them? Is it only one guard, or are there several in rotation? Where do you get this information? Once they accept your bribe, how do you get the money to them?

I’m just thinking about the logistics of the situation. Surely someone who can do all of this stuff would be considered skilful.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#88

Post by saalweachter »

hurrdurr2 wrote: post #43

It sure was convenient for a lot of high profile people that this guy is dead. The cameras happened to malfunction on that day... guy got taken off suicide watch. Also his cell mate was an ex-cop who looks like he could snap people in half without trying. I mean come on.

Former cellmate; Epstein had no cellmate at the time of his death.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#89

Post by mc32 »

trickstra wrote: post #81
mc32 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I’m also skeptical of improbable theories... but this one looks, I mean looks, too convenient. Cameras go offline, taken off suicide watch... even if it wasn’t someone physically doing him in, they can drive him to do it by psychological means. This was one of the highest profile cases in the last decade. That they didn’t have him watched 24x7 is incredible gross negligence or more. I mean you have low level cri…

That's because you never hear about the cameras that go offline when nothing interesting happened. It's probably very common.

Yes of course, but normally security would get pinged with alarms especially if the cameras were tagged as critical. In secure environs when they get a camera offline condition they send out people to do the watching.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#90

Post by camel_Snake »

EpicEng wrote: post #68
arbitrage wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The criminal justice / mental health field being what it is, I do not find it surprising in the least that a reviled kiddie-fucker would be allowed, by several levels of people involved, 15 minutes alone, along with plausibly accidental access to a means to kill themselves. The breaking of the hyoid bone is, in fact, not uncommon in hangings. Nor is the breaking of the cartilage. Nor is hemorrhaging in the face or ey…

>The breaking of the hyoid bone is, in fact, not uncommon in hangings. Nor is the breaking of the cartilage. Nor is hemorrhaging in the face or eyes. You're directly contradicting an expect here. Have any sources to back that up?

Not the parent but here's the first google result:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20973326

TLDR happens ~25% of the time for males.

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