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Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

miamiherald.com

21–30 of 435 posts

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#21

It doesn't seem that this new claim discusses anything not explicitly mentioned at the time of the suicide decision. See the NYT article on this new report for a fuller discussion, as well as quotes from many pathologists: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/30/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-...

The fact that Baden, one of the only two MEs assigned to examine the body, believes it was a homicide is certainly news. So is the fact that the NYC ME listed cause of death as "pending" initially and then it was later amended to "suicide" for reasons unknown.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#22
I hate to be boring, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, which so far has not been presented.

My brother in law is an attorney who literally makes a career out of the deaths and injuries that result from the incredible incompetence and neglect we inflict upon the imprisoned in this country. And as he puts it "Business is Good."

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#24
To not make a snippy comment about the media treatment about it because that would be tiring, I'd like to instead draw an imperfect parallel to narcopolitics in Latin America. Kingpins from El Chapo to Escobar were notorious for getting away with just about anything, the former for his tunnel and the latter for actually dropping bombs. For a lot of folks on the other side of the border, perhaps they thought it was something that could never happen here.

But, I think what I see there, what I see here just tend to reinforce something that I believe is vindicated by the rest of history -- politics can be very dirty, and to prematurely label something a conspiracy theory can get in the way of seeing the reality of what happens on the ground. There's a difference between labeling something a conspiracy theory because it feels unthinkable and labeling something a conspiracy theory because it's a stretch to imagine it logistically possible. I have a hope that somehow we can get to a reality where that's not the case, but it's hard to reconcile that with seeing these things happen again and again.

How strong is a democracy? What is the price of freedom and liberty, and how resistant are any of the world's well-resourced democracies to this sort of high-level corruption? Were they ever resistant to it? Were democracy and technopolitics always merely a smokescreen over invisible perpetuations of the perennial brutal principle of "might makes right" and any egalitarian, humanist drive somewhat doomed to never fully (or even partially) succeed?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was taken off of suicide watch, so he had all the materials he needed to kill himself. Also...every person I've read with working knowledge of that prison has stressed the gross negligence and incompetence there.

This was the same prison that somehow held El Chapo, a serial jailbreaker, in custody throughout his trial. They can be competent when actually motivated to do so.

El Chapo broke out of Mexican prisons where his ability to influence guards/staff is much greater than a US prison. Also, being able to prevent someone from breaking out and preventing someone from killing themselves seem like two different classes of problems. Being good enough to prevent one doesn't necessarily imply being good enough to prevent the other.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#26
post #20

This is not the head pathologist who performed the autopsy or anything. This is an pathologist hired by Epstein's family who is notable for saying dramatic things in an apparent attempt to get news time: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/who... Furthermore, there's nothing new here - all of this was known months ago. The damage in question - Baden's smoking gun - is not uncommon in suicides eit…

From the article:

> Dr. Michael Baden, one of the world’s leading forensic pathologists, viewed Jeffrey Epstein’s body and was present at the autopsy, which was held the day after Epstein was found dead at the notorious Metropolitan Correctional Center in downtown Manhattan.

It looks like he was at least present at the autopsy

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#27
post #18
post #5

I'm fascinated by the idea that someone could have killed and successfully covered up a murder this high profile. How do you handle the guards? How do you keep the other inmates quiet? Can you get away with bribing a single guard or is a larger operation needed? If you bribe people, how do you get the money to them? How do you keep them quiet when the inevitable investigation happens? I don't think it's impossible, b…

I would think anyone privy to the situation would be handled the same way, by threat of death to them or loved ones. Maybe a little cash to ease the mental burden. I'd like to think I could withstand such a threat like a fictional hero, but I have my doubts. I hope to never know for sure.

A fictional hero usually has a motivation to withstand the threat, the show usually works hard to setup the motivation.

I doubt most people, or heroes, withstand the threat when they don't actually care. Do you personally care if Epstein is alive or dead?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#29
post #5

I'm fascinated by the idea that someone could have killed and successfully covered up a murder this high profile. How do you handle the guards? How do you keep the other inmates quiet? Can you get away with bribing a single guard or is a larger operation needed? If you bribe people, how do you get the money to them? How do you keep them quiet when the inevitable investigation happens? I don't think it's impossible, b…

> I'm fascinated by the idea that someone could have killed and successfully covered up a murder this high profile.

What reasons could there be to cover up non high profile murders? High profile is where all the covering up happens.

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