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When XML Beats JSON: UI Layouts

engineering.instawork.com

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Re: When XML Beats JSON: UI Layouts

#11

Post by onion2k »

ilogik wrote: post #4
onion2k wrote: post #3

No one should really be writing UI code by modifying a file by hand because UIs are often complex and deep, so the file structure used to store the UI data doesn't need to be human-readable. This is true for any data - once you hit a moderate level of complexity neither JSON or XML really work - you need to build a tool to manipulate the underlying data rather than changing it directly. If you do that then it doesn't…

so we shouldn't write HTML by hand, but instead use WYSIWYG editors?

HTML isn't a UI description. It's a document description. HTML + CSS + [browser behavior|Javascript] is the UI description, and arguably some more complex web apps are getting to the point were they've gone past the point where HTML, CSS, and JS are the best formats for describing the way they work.

Re: When XML Beats JSON: UI Layouts

#12

Post by _f9cu »

This doesn't seem to solve any problem related to UI. Because tree can be converted to a list and vice versa. The added advantage is tree structure is natural.

But the way article is put forward is as if using json we cannot achieve tree structure

Re: When XML Beats JSON: UI Layouts

#13

Post by Razengan »

onion2k wrote: post #3

No one should really be writing UI code by modifying a file by hand because UIs are often complex and deep, so the file structure used to store the UI data doesn't need to be human-readable. This is true for any data - once you hit a moderate level of complexity neither JSON or XML really work - you need to build a tool to manipulate the underlying data rather than changing it directly. If you do that then it doesn't…

> No one should really be writing UI code by modifying a file by hand because UIs are often complex and deep, so the file structure used to store the UI data doesn't need to be human-readable.

I strongly disagree. SwiftUI is fucking amazing.

https://developer.apple.com/tutorials/swiftui/

Even with your other comment about "until you hit a moderate level of complexity." People are already creating some complex things with it. In fact, they can be more complex than what you can achieve with traditional frameworks when you consider the time it takes; what takes me a day in UIKit etc. takes me a minute in SwiftUI, so I can quickly move on to the next bit.

With declarative UI code I could literally have a usable app in the same time it takes me to struggle with getting separate visual designers + logic editors to agree over a single moderately complex component.

Though, it is several layers of abstraction over what really happens behind the scenes, so I guess a part of your point stands.

Re: When XML Beats JSON: UI Layouts

#14

Post by z3t4 »

kreco wrote: post #5
onion2k wrote: post #3

No one should really be writing UI code by modifying a file by hand because UIs are often complex and deep, so the file structure used to store the UI data doesn't need to be human-readable. This is true for any data - once you hit a moderate level of complexity neither JSON or XML really work - you need to build a tool to manipulate the underlying data rather than changing it directly. If you do that then it doesn't…

Following what you say we should only have binary format. I think you underestimate the convenience of a text format. It does not only provide a simple way to generate it, but also provide a way to modify it by hand .

And it's also easier to debug human readable text then it is to debug raw binary. Text is such a good abstraction layer that we almost never have to deal with character encodings, etc. Only problem is that it has to be parsed twice, first from binary to text, then from text to whatever. But computers are good at such tasks, while humans are not.

Re: When XML Beats JSON: UI Layouts

#15

Post by keithnoizu »

kreco wrote: post #5
onion2k wrote: post #3

No one should really be writing UI code by modifying a file by hand because UIs are often complex and deep, so the file structure used to store the UI data doesn't need to be human-readable. This is true for any data - once you hit a moderate level of complexity neither JSON or XML really work - you need to build a tool to manipulate the underlying data rather than changing it directly. If you do that then it doesn't…

Following what you say we should only have binary format. I think you underestimate the convenience of a text format. It does not only provide a simple way to generate it, but also provide a way to modify it by hand .

Yeah I had to hand edit some IOS ui stuff when a version diff caused problems. human readibility even if difficult is beneficial. Useful for generating diffs as well

Re: When XML Beats JSON: UI Layouts

#17

Post by arethuza »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #10

The main reason that I use XML (occasionally) is because of XML Schema. It's a very precise data description that can be semantically verified. Otherwise, I try to use JSON, where possible, because I am not a masochist.

JSON Schema is pretty useful and is well supported by tools like VS Code

Re: When XML Beats JSON: UI Layouts

#18

Post by laggan »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #10

The main reason that I use XML (occasionally) is because of XML Schema. It's a very precise data description that can be semantically verified. Otherwise, I try to use JSON, where possible, because I am not a masochist.

I actually found JSON Schema to be FAR FAR FAR easier to use than XML Schema.

https://json-schema.org/

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