The mindfulness conspiracy • Hacker News Board

Re: The mindfulness conspiracy

#11

Post by kranner » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 8:49 AM UTC

> Other sources of cultural malaise are not discussed. The only mention of the word “capitalist” in Kabat-Zinn’s book Coming to Our Senses: Healing Ourselves and the World Through Mindfulness occurs in an anecdote about a stressed investor who says: “We all suffer a kind of ADD.”

So the author is upset that Kabat-Zinn omitted to name "capitalism" specifically and railing against its evils in a self-help book?

One might as well write an article jumping all over CBT: that by helping patients recognise Automatic Negative Thoughts and breaking the loop, psychologists are conspiring to keep society in the evil grip of capitalism.

This whole thing comes across as a strawman argument.

Re: The mindfulness conspiracy

#12

Post by bayesian_horse » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 8:59 AM UTC

I think the author doesn't understand mindfulness. Achieving mindfulness can only help you to know what exactly you want to change and what you can change.

It seems to me that the author favors radical change, either in general or he assumes everybody knows what exactly must be changed and how. Which I doubt.

"Capitalism" has spared the Western world increasingly more suffering, so there is no point in "going back" anywhere.

While I do favor corrections in terms of wealth distribution, I'd be hesitant to implement any unproven radical changes.

I fail to see why mindfulness meditation is any obstacle to this.

Re: The mindfulness conspiracy

#13

Post by bayesian_horse » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 9:00 AM UTC

collyw wrote: post #9

The bias clearly show through in the writing. "Societal problems", "unjust society", " systemic change that might remove it". Mindfulness is somewhat oversold these days, but his understanding of it seems very simplistic "Mindfulness is nothing more than basic concentration training." Surprise surprise, he has a book to sell about it. https://guardianbookshop.com/mcmindfulness-9781912248315.htm...

I also feel he assumes that there has been a better society somewhere in the past.

Re: The mindfulness conspiracy

#14

Post by adrianN » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 9:01 AM UTC

thendrill wrote: post #7

1penny42cents wrote: post #3

One goal of mindfulness and meditation is to reduce the amount of noise in our heads so that we can see things clearer. This allows us to take more _effective_ actions. The author seems to have a clear bias that radical == good, and this puts me off. Radical action can be good, and it can be bad. Mindfulness can help us see which case is which.

That is also the goal of religion. Tell your worries to god in silence and peace, then wait and be patient for God to fix it.

That is so simplified that it is more wrong than right. I don't know of any mainstream religion that encourages waiting for god to fix things.

Re: The mindfulness conspiracy

#15

Post by dev_north_east » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 9:02 AM UTC

From an outsider's perspective, it just seems like a way to replicate daily prayers.

I'll stick with the Rosary thanks.

Re: The mindfulness conspiracy

#16

Post by ptah » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 9:03 AM UTC

1penny42cents wrote: post #3

One goal of mindfulness and meditation is to reduce the amount of noise in our heads so that we can see things clearer. This allows us to take more _effective_ actions. The author seems to have a clear bias that radical == good, and this puts me off. Radical action can be good, and it can be bad. Mindfulness can help us see which case is which.

Fully agree, mindfulness can help one come up with even more radical actions. It can be a tool for activists to cope with the pressures of activism.

It doesn't sound like the author has done any mindfulness practice

Re: The mindfulness conspiracy

#17

Post by Mo3 » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 9:04 AM UTC

There we go. The authors biased and naive opinion of mindfulness is just that. His opinion. Without any awareness of itself.

What happens when we have nothing to think about but thoughts? We lose ourselves in the content of thought without seeing them for what they really are.

Human says "my thoughts", yet believes himself to be the content of the thoughts, the seemingly very important thoughts that start with "I" and everything that comes after it.

Where are the thoughts appearing in? That's you.

And staying in this perspective on purpose is mindfulness.

And being mindful sets a lot of things straight.

Radical change starts within and everything outside follows after it. And you don't need to do anything for it. In fact, sometimes you need not to.

Re: The mindfulness conspiracy

#18

Post by HNLurker2 » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 9:08 AM UTC

Zizek may say this is late capitalism of the west.

Re: The mindfulness conspiracy

#19

Post by pygy_ » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 9:12 AM UTC

Counterpoint: mindfulness makes one less prone to the torrent of distracting junk we're being fed and lets us focus on the problem we could act on...

Re: The mindfulness conspiracy

#20

Post by jahaja » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 9:15 AM UTC

bayesian_horse wrote: post #12

I think the author doesn't understand mindfulness. Achieving mindfulness can only help you to know what exactly you want to change and what you can change. It seems to me that the author favors radical change, either in general or he assumes everybody knows what exactly must be changed and how. Which I doubt. "Capitalism" has spared the Western world increasingly more suffering, so there is no point in "going back" a…

> "Capitalism" has spared the Western world increasingly more suffering

"Spared" implies that there's a clearly worse and inevitable alternative. Unless we shake off this ingrained cold-war mentality no other alternatives than status-quo will seem plausible.