Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm • Hacker News Board

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#281

Post by geggam » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 9:37 PM UTC

Frondo wrote: post #238

geggam wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't quit and because of that succeeded in spite of the obstacles. There is your example. Trust me... being on disability was an option and quite tempting. I wanted more out of life than to sit around letting others take care of me.

You know that statement, the plural of anecdote is not data? Lots of people struggle and what you're describing is just crab bucket. You struggled so you think it's okay if everyone does. It's not.

Not struggling through life would be what I call privilege. Someone did struggle and gave you that privilege.

No one coasts through life without someone struggling.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#282

Post by geggam » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 9:38 PM UTC

theseadroid wrote: post #236

geggam wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man is created with equal rights but not equal talents or intelligence. If there is any luck in life its the genetic lottery.

We can go into the debate of how much inequality is healthy for a society to encourage innovation and hard work. However in many parts of the world and even U.S. I would say many talented and intelligent people didn't even get the chance to work hard to earn something because the society didn't provide them such a chance. Your personal experience is moving but the reality is many people are rich not because they work…

When society gets too unfair the poor have a way of equalizing the social status. Typically via violence.

History shows us this.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#283

Post by geggam » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 9:43 PM UTC

kirykl wrote: post #214

ceejayoz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bankruptcy will eventually improve the score. It's not instant, and may substantially worsen it in the short term. Some organizations that do credit checks may also have a "no recent bankruptcy" policy despite accepting lower credit scores. Not everyone's way behind at the time they declare bankruptcy, either. We did it because six figures worth of medical debt was ceasing to be juggleable, and disability approval (a…

I agree, bankruptcy is an unfortunate solution for unexpected medical debt, as it impacts ones consumer credit score. FWIW the GP comment was referring to "banks who loan money to folks who cannot afford it" which implies baling out consumer debt instead of filing for bankruptcy

Exactly, bankruptcy punishes the creditor which is how the system is designed. They assume the risk instead of passing it on to society.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#284

Post by algaeontoast » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 10:04 PM UTC

davidhyde wrote: post #86

blhack wrote: post #35

Okay these loans certainly sound like a bad deal, but what are people supposed to do? Say your car breaks and you can’t get to work. For all of us here billing out >$100hr or whatever your local consulting rate is, the answer is some calculus around the cost of losing your job vs the cost of fixing it. But for MOST people, the cost of fixing it is functionally infinite. They literally do not have even a few hundred d…

Your income level does not make you wealthy, it is your capacity to absorb financial speed bumps. At uni, I made less money than some of my peers but I felt wealthier than them. This continued into our professional lives and had nothing to do with our relative income levels. Back then I always had spare cash to spend when an opportunity arose. An unplanned weekend trip away, a celebratory night out, no problem. Sure…

Most people I know who make less than $50k a year and are between the age of 19-25 have better money management skills / perception of money than my peers making $100k and up.

Many have similar social lives, I think it boils down to perception and realizing what it's really like to go broke. Most people who don't come from means know the emotional / mental value of not freaking out about money constantly, while those who come from money or just spend like there's no tomorrow seem to feel like buying out to their ego's delight will lead to a life they want. It's bizarre to watch. Some of my friends think it's normal to have $40k+ in credit card debt or $80k+ in student loans and still have a $100 gym membership and blow money like crazy. Again, bizarre to watch.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#285

Post by Twixes » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 10:15 PM UTC

alecco wrote: post #279

streblo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like the government should be offering some type of non predatory debt relief comparable to this. Just want to point out the fact that US government-backed student loans are non-dischargeable through bankruptcy. You will have that albatross around your neck until you pay it off or die. This is the ultimate predatory loan and it's provided by the government.

Good luck giving credit to students without any backing.

Thats's kind of what the UK, for example, does with student loans – you only pay them off as a fraction of the part of your income above a threshold and any debt remaining after 30 years is simply forgiven.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#286

Post by imtringued » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

blackflame wrote: post #254

manthedudeguy wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something to always consider - all of that unused cash at the end is something you didn't do during the game (your life) that you probably could have benefited from.

Like Frank Capra's 1938 film, "You can't take it with you"

Unfortunately I don't have a death star to destroy every planet in the solar system. If I can't take them with me why can't I at least watch the biggest fireworks ever? So much wasted potential...

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#287

Post by EliRivers » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 10:25 PM UTC

christophilus wrote: post #143

davidhyde wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your income level does not make you wealthy, it is your capacity to absorb financial speed bumps. At uni, I made less money than some of my peers but I felt wealthier than them. This continued into our professional lives and had nothing to do with our relative income levels. Back then I always had spare cash to spend when an opportunity arose. An unplanned weekend trip away, a celebratory night out, no problem. Sure…

This brings up a tangential question I've had lately. When I played video games (especially RPGs), I always ended the game with a mountain of unused resources at my disposal. I rarely used items, cash, etc, unless the ROI was plainly evident. Many of my friends would just burn through cash / items as soon as they had them, and were often in a bind during tough battles / situations. I wonder if this followed us into l…

Related. One day you'll be dying. And you'll have a whole lot of savings you didn't use. Fun you could have had. Will you wish you'd spent it, or will checking out with money in the bank give you pleasure in itself?

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#288

Post by parliament32 » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 10:27 PM UTC

qes wrote: post #221

downrightmike wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but then the cable companies will charge you anything over 1TB. And if you have more than 2 screens, because of kids, it will add up, so the cable company will relax that cap IF you also buy cable TV. Remember cable companies are assholes.

> if you have more than 2 screens, because of kids, it will add up I download and seed hundreds of GB's a month of torrents and run a couple cryptocurrency nodes in a household of 4 where everyone uses youtube, netflix, and spotify often and we've broken 1TB once in a decade..

Meanwhile, some roommates and I hit 1TB in a week in a 4 person household. After quickly switching to an unlimited plan, some data accounting showed almost 80% of that came from the three game consoles playing online (fast connection = you're always the host in Destiny 2 apparently).

What I'm saying is YMMV. I bet you'd see different results if one or two of your housemates turned on 4K on youtube/netflix.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#289

Post by bsder » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 10:30 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #245

blhack wrote: post #35

Okay these loans certainly sound like a bad deal, but what are people supposed to do? Say your car breaks and you can’t get to work. For all of us here billing out >$100hr or whatever your local consulting rate is, the answer is some calculus around the cost of losing your job vs the cost of fixing it. But for MOST people, the cost of fixing it is functionally infinite. They literally do not have even a few hundred d…

80% of people live "paycheck to paycheck" whatever exactly that means. (count me among them) Very few of them actually need to. It is possible at any income level to spend less money than you make. People don't tend to make those choices though and unfortunately prices reflect this - for a lot of things, especially housing, prices rise to whatever people will pay – if everyone is willing to pay so much for housing th…

> Very few of them actually need to. It is possible at any income level to spend less money than you make.

My anecdata certainly doesn't back this up, so I'm going make you cite.

Most of the people I know who are in trouble are generally there due to medical costs. If we had universal healthcare in the US, I would be more receptive to your statement.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#290

Post by ActorNightly » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 10:32 PM UTC

mumblemumble wrote: post #56

blhack wrote: post #35

Okay these loans certainly sound like a bad deal, but what are people supposed to do? Say your car breaks and you can’t get to work. For all of us here billing out >$100hr or whatever your local consulting rate is, the answer is some calculus around the cost of losing your job vs the cost of fixing it. But for MOST people, the cost of fixing it is functionally infinite. They literally do not have even a few hundred d…

I don't want to tut-tut the poor, but I do want to tut-tut consumer culture in general. There are a whole lot of people who _should_ be able to afford an unexpected car repair bill, and could quite easily do so, if they weren't spending $100 a month on cable TV, $800 every other year on a high-end smartphone, $500/month on owning an SUV when a $200/mo economy car would serve just fine, etc., and put the money into a…

The problem with any line of thinking like this is that this deals with the core human nature of self agency versus pre desposition to certain things.

While it seems like common logic to someone that has the ability to live cheaply and save money, the more important thing is someone emotional response in this situation - that person actually feels good about saving. Something like this is not intrinsic to human development, and is usually acquired through the persons upbringing.

So when a person that makes little money decides to buy a high end smartphone, its not because they are doing it out of stupidity, they are doing it because they need to feel the same positive emotion that the former person feels. And as long as they can get by day to day, they are not incentivized to make any changes.

The discussion to enact change needs to start with answering this question - how do you effectively "reprogram" someone to value delayed gratification over immediate gratification?