Driverless cars are stuck in a jam • Hacker News Board

Re: Driverless cars are stuck in a jam

#371

Post by rootusrootus » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #140

So, do we, as modern people, consciously accept that in order to get faster to our destination some people must necessarily lose their lives because of the technology we use to transport us? Given that our transport technology is not completely safe, we must accept that some people will die using it. Even a very low chance of lethal accidents means that some lethal accidents _must_ happen. Some people _will_ lose the…

> Does the general public appreciate this or is it just the case that people get into their cars or board planes, etc, thinking "nah, it won't happen to me"?

I think the average person recognizes the risk tradeoff. Though I suspect a lot more people worry about planes than worry about cars, even though planes are statistically safer. Guessing that is probably due to a combination of speed, gravity, and lack of direct control over the plane.

Re: Driverless cars are stuck in a jam

#372

Post by rossdavidh » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

mitfahrener wrote: post #364

bogle wrote: post #133

If we expect driverless cars to be further delayed and we continue building our cities to encourage micromobility (bikes, electric scooters, segregated lanes, car free streets, etc.) then at which point does the value of the driverless car become moot because we no longer drive? Does this sound unlikely? Consider European cities like Copenhagen and Amsterdam which have encouraged cycling over the last two decades and…

Let me guess. Single male, able body, no kids. When you have kids, you'd appreciate having a car/rent a car/uber when grocery shopping for example. And the city is full of people with kids. We are not the minority here. Not everyone is interested in a scooter that is inherently unsafe at moderate speeds.

original comment said "why would I prefer a driverless taxi if an electric car with a human driver costs no more?" Which would not seem to be talking about a scooter.

Re: Driverless cars are stuck in a jam

#373

Post by mitfahrener » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

bogle wrote: post #187

redwood wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be happening in Europe but for 95% of Americans it's sadly a pipedream.

What is stopping American cities from changing their infrastructure investment from automobiles to micromobility? Is there one, big, standout reason that could be addressed? It's a change that takes decades and it's fighting against incumbents with deep pockets but it could be done.

Micromobility is dangerous. Want go check injuries per mile stats?

Re: Driverless cars are stuck in a jam

#374

Post by kalleboo » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #328

kalleboo wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will the driverless car be as cheap as the second hand Nissan Leaf? Eventually, yes. That is the march of technology. Especially if Elon Musk's bet that it can be done using only cameras is right - then the hardware cost is the same as an iPhone. If LIDAR is also required, it will take longer for the prices to go down. This year I bought a 2-year old used econobox car (63 horsepower of pure fury). It already came w…

I am not at all bitter that my brand new 60K electric car does not have top-down camera ability. Or CarPlay. No, I am not bitter at all. I drove a rental Nissan Rogue a few weeks back while we were in DC and it had top-down camera, auto steer, adaptive cruise, heated everything, etc. And that is not exactly the most desirable car you can buy. The technology really has trickled all the way to the bottom, but some of i…

I guess it's like hotels. Any cheap roadside hotel will give you free Wi-Fi, but the expensive luxury hotel will charge you $10/night for the pleasure (not sure how true that is anymore, it was a couple years ago)

Re: Driverless cars are stuck in a jam

#375

Post by rootusrootus » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

sliken wrote: post #85

Tesla claims that autopilot is involved in one accident for every 4.34 million miles driven. Seems like a useful number, of course the media reports that the average is 1 accident per 500,000 miles. So 9 times safer... right? Question is how many accidents do similar people (read that as rich enough to buy a $50k+ car) in similar conditions (highways) with similar cars (newish luxury cars) without autopilot? No fair…

Autopilot has caused me more near-misses than it has prevented. And I only use it on the highway.

The statistic would be more useful if 1) only compared to similar driving conditions, and 2) driver is not allowed to intervene. As long as the human is there to save things when autopilot goes pear-shaped, it's impossible to say how safe autopilot really is.

Re: Driverless cars are stuck in a jam

#376

Post by ceejayoz » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 5:17 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #369

I'm a little confused by the delivery only cars like Nuro. Logistically how would the package be delivered once it arrives at my apartment...? Would I have to be home and physically grab my package from the vehicle? If there's a human assistant who needs to drop off my package to my doorstep then is there really any cost savings over a regular driver?

Yes, you'd have to be home to take things out of the vehicle. It's more the pizza/grocery delivery model than the "we left your Amazon package on the porch" one.

Re: Driverless cars are stuck in a jam

#377

Post by rustybelt » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 5:17 PM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #251

de_watcher wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are places where it's cold, where it rains and snows. So we can't bike everywhere. The good thing about the driverless cars is that they solve the parking problems in the cities. We can even add lanes or pavements by removing all parking spaces in the city centers.

I keep forgetting that since the dawn of time, humans have been so sensitive to environmental conditions that it is a wonder we survived as a species. I get what you're saying, but in the end it boils down to "it must be 72F and dry anywhere I go". A little rain isn't going to kill you, leave the car at home today. Don't want to ride in the rain? Then don't ride in the rain, I certainly won't judge. But it is not som…

So you're admitting that your solution involves a reduced quality of life?

Re: Driverless cars are stuck in a jam

#378

Post by greedo » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #345

cloudwalking wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then go back to the grocery store every day. What a waste of time. You can also wash your laundry but hand. The reality is we have these appliances (including cars) because they increase our personal efficiency quite a bit.

Nah, the suburban life was a strange fashion that took hold for a few decades but never really made sense, and thus it's now in decline as people return to the city cores. For the older generation owning a car was a status symbol, but the younger generation doesn't care.

Check back with us in 30 years. I bet suburbs will still be hugely popular in the US.

Re: Driverless cars are stuck in a jam

#379

Post by tempsy » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 5:19 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #376

tempsy wrote: post #369

I'm a little confused by the delivery only cars like Nuro. Logistically how would the package be delivered once it arrives at my apartment...? Would I have to be home and physically grab my package from the vehicle? If there's a human assistant who needs to drop off my package to my doorstep then is there really any cost savings over a regular driver?

Yes, you'd have to be home to take things out of the vehicle. It's more the pizza/grocery delivery model than the "we left your Amazon package on the porch" one.

That seems pretty inconvenient. I'd predict a ton of missed deliveries. Even with Amazon/Whole Foods delivery they ring but will just drop it off at my door.

Re: Driverless cars are stuck in a jam

#380

Post by rossdavidh » Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

The "easiest" (read: least difficult) to automate would be long-haul, between cities. But, we have an "automated" system for that, it's called railroads, where one driver can steer dozens or hundreds of cars.

The hardest to automate is in-city driving, where the environment is much more complicated to parse, and there are many more kinds of fellow-users (pedestrians, bicyclists, etc.). So, naturally, that's where they went first, because it's not about what makes engineering sense, it's about what gets the "dumb money" to invest.