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Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

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Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#81
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their family has that responsibility. I dont mind society creating allowances but the US has went too far and created barriers to small businesses with all of the disability requirements. I have many friends with small businesses that would like to start their own shop but the toilet requirement alone is almost 100k in up front cost. Ridiculous.

They don't, though. Once someone turns 18 they are legally no one's responsibility but their own self's.

So you quit loving your mom and dad at 18 ?

And Im callous ?

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#82
post #68
post #35

Okay these loans certainly sound like a bad deal, but what are people supposed to do? Say your car breaks and you can’t get to work. For all of us here billing out >$100hr or whatever your local consulting rate is, the answer is some calculus around the cost of losing your job vs the cost of fixing it. But for MOST people, the cost of fixing it is functionally infinite. They literally do not have even a few hundred d…

Sure, but wouldn't be better for most people in this situation to simply default on their current debt, that take on these 150% loans that will bankrupt them just as well 2 years later.

That's a hit to your pride. Who wants to give up like that? And in more practical terms, how does that help with your problem this week? Now you have a broken car and zero ability to get non-predatory credit.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#83
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their family has that responsibility. I dont mind society creating allowances but the US has went too far and created barriers to small businesses with all of the disability requirements. I have many friends with small businesses that would like to start their own shop but the toilet requirement alone is almost 100k in up front cost. Ridiculous.

Ask not what the US can do for you, but what you can do for the US. Isn't this the exact same scenario you're claiming? Your friends should take personal responsibility instead of asking the government to bend to them. No? (I'm trying to understand your logic here and how it applies to multiple circumstances. I think they're incongruous here, but I don't understand why.)

You dont need to spend that sort of money to make it so a wheelchair person can use the pooper. Govt regulations require you spend that sort of money.

Therein lies the problem.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#84
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry but this is a ridiculous, unactionable answer that is functionally equivalent to “well we should make things better”. Yes of course we should, HOW? We need more innovative solutions to these problems. I like seeing electric bicycle shares, I like seeing community-based, high density housing with shared kitchens and bathrooms, I like predictive diagnostics and telemedicine (although the FDA is fighting it).

Peer-to-peer unsecured micro-loans at low interest rates, instead of GoFundMe.

GoFundMe is a charity platform. How can p2p microloan platform replace it? So I'll make a micro loan fully know it will never be repaid?

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#85
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree, You make the choices for life. Accept personal responsibility.

> Disagree, You make the choices for life. Accept personal responsibility. Most people do accept responsibility. This is the problem: >In the decade through 2018, average household incomes for those with a high school diploma have risen about 15%, to roughly $46,000, according to the latest U.S. Census Bureau data available. >Not only is that less than the 20% increase registered on a broad basket of goods over the s…

> but the economy is taking advantage of them.

Interested in hearing how you explain this.

I dont disagree with you but I would like to know what you see as the root cause.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#86
post #35

Okay these loans certainly sound like a bad deal, but what are people supposed to do? Say your car breaks and you can’t get to work. For all of us here billing out >$100hr or whatever your local consulting rate is, the answer is some calculus around the cost of losing your job vs the cost of fixing it. But for MOST people, the cost of fixing it is functionally infinite. They literally do not have even a few hundred d…

Your income level does not make you wealthy, it is your capacity to absorb financial speed bumps. At uni, I made less money than some of my peers but I felt wealthier than them. This continued into our professional lives and had nothing to do with our relative income levels. Back then I always had spare cash to spend when an opportunity arose. An unplanned weekend trip away, a celebratory night out, no problem. Sure I didn't have what they had. No car, I took the bus instead of flying home, had to have drinks before going out rather then buying them out, that sort of stuff.

The difference was that I saved money to have savings for the sake of having a financial buffer rather than saving for something that I wanted to buy. Don't live beyond your means, it's that simple. These loans are targeted at middle class Americans, not the poor and starving. They should be able to save.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#87
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead we should be looking at ways to make it so that giant unpredicted expenses don’t happen at all. Or maybe fix it from the other end: reduce inequality so fewer people are living paycheck to paycheck and can actually build savings to use for unpredicted expenses.

I’m sorry but this is a ridiculous, unactionable answer that is functionally equivalent to “well we should make things better”. Yes of course we should, HOW? We need more innovative solutions to these problems. I like seeing electric bicycle shares, I like seeing community-based, high density housing with shared kitchens and bathrooms, I like predictive diagnostics and telemedicine (although the FDA is fighting it).

> Yes of course we should, HOW?

Look at how society works in countries that are better than your own at this. What is the fundamental differences in politics, media climate, labor market laws, health insurance education. Then vote for a politician or party that tries to improve things in that direction.

I don't think there are technological quick fixes. The solution to "people live paycheck to paycheck" I think is e.g. improving employment security by e.g. not having healthcare tied to employment which keeps people in low paying jobs. Ensuring everyone can organize so employers pay more, and so on.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#88
post #58
post #35

Okay these loans certainly sound like a bad deal, but what are people supposed to do? Say your car breaks and you can’t get to work. For all of us here billing out >$100hr or whatever your local consulting rate is, the answer is some calculus around the cost of losing your job vs the cost of fixing it. But for MOST people, the cost of fixing it is functionally infinite. They literally do not have even a few hundred d…

> cheaper transportation options, cheaper access to healthcare or preventitive care, predictive diagnostics, etc. I'd also add teaching financial literacy/strategy in school. A lot of mistakes could be avoided. I learned the hard way and it took a long time to dig myself out. There's a lot that would've been very useful to have known earlier.

Do we not do this anymore? When I was in high school almost 40 years ago, there was a class/classes that taught things like balancing a checkbook (go ask your parents), keeping a household budget, how interest works, and the like. I didn't take that class (kinda wished I had), so I don't know what it was called.

If we don't, we should. Especially now that we're all responsible for our own retirement. With nearly every job I've held in the last 20 years, I've been one of the "financial geeks" to ask questions of, and it is astounding the amount of ignorance we collectively have and yet are supposed to understand the shit that gets thrown at us by our 401K plans. I don't blame the individuals for their ignorance, hell, I make a hobby of this stuff and I'm still lost sometimes. But don't just thrown 'em into the deep end, have a class or two in high school because everyone is going to have to deal with some aspect of finances.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to tut-tut the poor, but I do want to tut-tut consumer culture in general. There are a whole lot of people who _should_ be able to afford an unexpected car repair bill, and could quite easily do so, if they weren't spending $100 a month on cable TV, $800 every other year on a high-end smartphone, $500/month on owning an SUV when a $200/mo economy car would serve just fine, etc., and put the money into a…

> $100 a month on cable TV given that the average American spends 4 hours/day watching TV[1], that's well under $1 per hour of entertainment. There aren't a lot of hobbies or entertainment media that are cheaper. 1: https://www.statista.com/statistics/186833/average-televisio...

Just because it's cheap doesn't mean there aren't cheaper alternatives. Most people could easily replace that with a netflix subscription for $13, since they already have an internet connection.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#90
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted I only have 5 decades of perspective but I have noticed people who get lucky tend to be the ones who dont quit. The ones who quit tend to call those who dont quit lucky.

And those who don’t quit and still die in the gutter? “Lack of hustle”? Your five decades is a drop in the bucket of human experience. I recommend more empathy and introspection on suffering of your fellow human.

I am not the only person with this perspective. Some very accomplished people agree with me.

“Shallow men believe in luck or in circumstance. Strong men believe in cause and effect.”

― Ralph Waldo Emerson

You don't know that dying in a gutter was actually better than the other option for their life.

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