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Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

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Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#31

Post by twh270 »

notus wrote: post #7
geggam wrote: post #4

Why should society be bailing out the banks who loan money to folks who cannot afford it then turn around and bail out people who borrow money and cannot afford it ? If you are broke file bankruptcy and reset your life. Quit trying to steal tax dollars

If filing for bankruptcy had no negative consequences I would agree, but that isn't the case. I agree that we shouldn't be bailing out banks, but we should have a safety net to bail out individuals. People go broke for various reasons, but the hallmark of an accomplished society is being able to ensure a decent quality of life for most people. Telling people to accept personal responsibility for everything that happe…

Yes, people go bankrupt for various reasons. Some reasons are more-or-less outside your control (medical costs being number one), many are at least partially within your control.

When you say the government should bail out individuals, you're saying that I should pay for someone's gambling addiction, someone's lack of effort in finding a job after graduating from university with $150K in loans, someone's inability to manage their credit cards.

It's one thing to help people who are in need, something else entirely to help people who are in a bad place because of their own poor decisions.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#32

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

notus wrote: post #7
geggam wrote: post #4

Why should society be bailing out the banks who loan money to folks who cannot afford it then turn around and bail out people who borrow money and cannot afford it ? If you are broke file bankruptcy and reset your life. Quit trying to steal tax dollars

If filing for bankruptcy had no negative consequences I would agree, but that isn't the case. I agree that we shouldn't be bailing out banks, but we should have a safety net to bail out individuals. People go broke for various reasons, but the hallmark of an accomplished society is being able to ensure a decent quality of life for most people. Telling people to accept personal responsibility for everything that happe…

Bankruptcy is the safety net to bail out individuals. If you find yourself with too much debt to ever escape, regardless of how much it is and (mostly) regardless of how you got it, you get a reset button to wipe out all the debt you can't pay. The only negative consequences of bankruptcy (beyond the fact that it's not free to file) are the ones caused by the fact that it's the safety net; it's embarrassing to be forced to take it and lenders will judge you for needing it.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#33

Post by toomuchtodo »

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #28
mikestew wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m going to assume that you’re young with limited life experience, which allows you to think that life is that clear-cut. I’d argue, but experience tells me I’ll have to wait until life decides its your turn to stand in front of the steam roller. A much less charitable interpretation has you making convenient answers so that you can conveniently wash your hands of social responsibility. But, man, I hate think that a…

What a horrifically uncharitable assumption to make. Why not just actually argue the point you want to make rather than resorting to not-so-subtle personal attacks?

It’s uncharitable to have a disdain for those without empathy when a large component of success is luck?

If you think success is guaranteed with grit and hard work, you are woefully misinformed. You can do everything right and still fail hard. “Personal responsibility” is a dog whistle for the willful ignorance of the necessity of government regulation and social safety nets.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#34

Post by theseadroid »

geggam wrote: post #9
notus wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If filing for bankruptcy had no negative consequences I would agree, but that isn't the case. I agree that we shouldn't be bailing out banks, but we should have a safety net to bail out individuals. People go broke for various reasons, but the hallmark of an accomplished society is being able to ensure a decent quality of life for most people. Telling people to accept personal responsibility for everything that happe…

Disagree, You make the choices for life. Accept personal responsibility.

Just like the rich didn't get rich entirely because of their own abilities, poor people didn't get poor because they chose to. Placing the poor people in an environment where there are better education, better healthcare and better career opportunities always results in better financial decision making. So the society bears most if not all responsibilities.

How can we eliminate poverty if it's entirely personal responsibility? Let me quote Mandela on this:

>Like slavery and apartheid, poverty is not natural. It is manmade, and it can be overcome and eradicated by the actions of human beings. And overcoming poverty is not a gesture of charity. It is an act of justice. It is the protection of a fundamental human right, the right to dignity and a decent life.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#35

Post by blhack »

Okay these loans certainly sound like a bad deal, but what are people supposed to do? Say your car breaks and you can’t get to work. For all of us here billing out >$100hr or whatever your local consulting rate is, the answer is some calculus around the cost of losing your job vs the cost of fixing it.

But for MOST people, the cost of fixing it is functionally infinite. They literally do not have even a few hundred dollars to, for instance, replace a tire.

Yeah, the interest on these is predatory, but then what are these lenders supposed to do? Many of the people getting these loans WILL default on them. Yes it would be great to offer these loans at a reasonable interest rate, but they are unsecured loans. The only collateral is the clients credit score.

It’s easy for all of us with our comfy tech jobs to hate on these, but to me that feels like kicking the poor while they are already down. Yeah, they know the loan is bad. They probably don’t have any other options.

Instead we should be looking at ways to make it so that giant unpredicted expenses don’t happen at all. That means cheaper transportation options, cheaper access to healthcare or preventitive care, predictive diagnostics, etc.

It helps nobody to point out how foolish the poor are.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#36

Post by MuffinFlavored »

S_A_P wrote: post #15
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #12

What's HN's opinion on 0% balance transfers? Yes, there's usually a 3% fee but... I've been able to borrow about $5k-$12k for a one time 3% fee over 18 months multiple times in a row now. I make sure to always pay the balance back before it is due. Why don't more people who need a cash infusion do this?

there is usually an asterisk next to those offers* *well qualified applicants only...

I had a feeling this was the case. I didn't realize it because I've been getting them in one degree to another since I was very young (~19-20 years old)

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#37

Post by awinder »

geggam wrote: post #19
geggam wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree, You make the choices for life. Accept personal responsibility.

I understand the downvoters here want someone else to take care of them. Sorry. If you want a functioning society you have to contribute. Not mooch. In the words of JFK And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country.

I think most people are downvoting you for being an asshole. There’s a way to make your point without being so incendiary and callous.

“We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.”

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#38

Post by twh270 »

chooseaname wrote: post #24
geggam wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree, You make the choices for life. Accept personal responsibility.

> Disagree, You make the choices for life. Accept personal responsibility. Most people do accept responsibility. This is the problem: >In the decade through 2018, average household incomes for those with a high school diploma have risen about 15%, to roughly $46,000, according to the latest U.S. Census Bureau data available. >Not only is that less than the 20% increase registered on a broad basket of goods over the s…

That is a problem. Also, personal responsibility (or the lack thereof) is a problem.

Jebus. Seems like everyone wants one thing to blame. It ain't that simple.

Re: Online installment loans have taken the subprime market by storm

#40

Post by papln »

notus wrote: post #2

I feel like the government should be offering some type of non predatory debt relief comparable to this. This service is only a detriment to the borrower due to the crazy high interest rates, but I think the government could break even with much more reasonable interest rates, consumers would be better off financially, and the predatory industries would disappear since they can't compete.

The solution to bad credit can't be more credit -- people will (and do) just take the credit, waste it, and then seek more credit.

A better solution is to allow discharge of private debt so that lenders put more effort into validating debtors. If a creditor want to get money back from a debtor, they need to put the effort in to validate that the debtor has sufficient assets to pay it back and isn't paycheck-to-paycheck buying highly depreciating products.

If you need to buy a house or a car on credit, you can. For almost anything else, you don't need credit unless you have an (usually illiquid) asset to back it -- a slowly-depreciating asset like a house or car, or a steady job. If you want a loan for a business, the creditor is on the hook for your default. Perhaps they'll insist on keeping your funds under trustee in escrow so you don't waste your loan on a luxury car and WeWork.

And while we're at it, term-limits on secured loans that cannot extend much beyond the depreciation of the loan-enabled purchased.

There's no reason that non-dischargable debt has to be arbitrarily easy to obtain.

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