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Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

latimes.com

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Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#201

Post by lucideer »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #176
kohanz wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, a homeless person with a smartphone has a hell of a lot better chance of getting a job than they did pre-smartphone, right? Not that I know the answer, but I would have to see a source on this. Why would a device that may increase access to job postings, but a non-homeless job candidate is much more likely to have than a homeless person, increase the chances of said homeless person in getting a job? I'm not e…

I’ve worked with and volunteered with an org who among other things got smart phones to our local homeless. Yes, it does help quite a bit. It’s a $50-100 setup and even without data they can go to any million places with free WiFi and get emails, call job listings, keep in touch with family members. It’s a pretty big deal to them.

I think you're comparing different things here.

1. Comparing the chances of a homeless person in the modern world with a smartphone, to a homeless person in the modern world without a smartphone.

2. Comparing the chances of a homeless person in the modern world with a smartphone, to a homeless person in a hypothetical internetless world (where noone can have a smartphone).

The org you volunteered with dealt with comparison #1 above. We're discussing comparison #2.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#203

Post by masswerk »

mcv wrote: post #35

> "Citizen-users need to hold websites more accountable. When was the last time a website asked what privacy policy you would like applied to you? My guess is never." Wrong guess. This happens multiple times per day, thanks to the GDPR legislation in the EU. Annoying, but also correct. I take great effort to disable everything I don't like (ad tracking in particular), and like the article says I should: > "You should…

Regarding GDPR, this is true for the EU, but the article was published in the LA Times, though…

It would be nice, if those properties, which can be applied globally, were already integrated in the browser as a preferences setting (and enforced by law). Meaning, privacy concerns must become part of the protocol. (What about some kind of 451 response by the browser?)

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#204

Post by Frondo »

ArtDev wrote: post #169
mrlala wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, a homeless person with a smartphone has a hell of a lot better chance of getting a job than they did pre-smartphone, right? Maybe this can count as more of a smartphone thing an internet thing.. but it's still largely an internet thing that would allow someone in a rough spot to still be able to connect with people online and look/apply for jobs.

I don't see a lot of homeless people with cellphones. How would they even charge them? Library Internet seems like a better solution.

Where there are public spaces that aren't actively policed, with public outlets, that's where they hang out. I used to live in a neighborhood next to a public library with a sheltered area and an outlet, and every night there'd be a couple of homeless people camping out there. They plugged their devices, had a smoke, and had shelter for the night.

Thankfully, the neighborhood itself was tolerant enough to let them be -- I never saw them being kicked out, and why should they be? They're not making trouble, and life's hard enough if you don't have an address to your name. Give them the small, quiet dignity of a place to stay dry from the rain and browse reddit.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#207

Post by themagician »

airstrike wrote: post #158
themagician wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more like inventing the bicycle and then having it evolve into a car, where your initial idea was for a safe, economical, sustainable way to get from on point to another. Instead we paved over all the sidewalks with freeways to make room insanely large vehicles that crash into each other and kill everyone involved. Sure, they get from one point to another faster and help you transport things larger than you imag…

That's still not a valid argument. You're minimizing the amazing benefits created by near instantaneous transportation (or communication, in the case of the internet). How many lives were saved because ambulances exist? It's easy to cherry pick the pros and cons of any invention, but at the end of the day any attempt to do so is inherently biased. Society continues to evolve with nearly every economic and welfare ind…

It’s not an argument, and it is valid. It’s just not the argument you’re trying to make.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#208

Post by lmpostor »

reikonomusha wrote: post #188
adim86 wrote: post #103

I find this post quite disappointing. I don't mean to come off harsh but it is quite naive and utopian and I cannot take the call to arms seriously. Saying the internet went wrong is like saying the invention of cars went wrong cause we still have car accidents. For every powerful force in the world, it will be a source of good and bad things. The internet has changed the world, increased communication, allowed peopl…

How about the internet being used as a mass surveillance machine and the obliteration of producers in favor of consumers? That facet isn’t a drop in the bucket of internet usage. M I think focusing what it could be used for and what it has been used for isn’t the right way to approach thinking about it. The internet is by and large used for consuming content from a handful of corporations (disclaimer: I have no sourc…

>the obliteration of producers in favor of consumers

More consumers begets more producers. I would assert you have better odds of producing in a wide variety of areas.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#209

Post by wonton52 »

adim86 wrote: post #103

I find this post quite disappointing. I don't mean to come off harsh but it is quite naive and utopian and I cannot take the call to arms seriously. Saying the internet went wrong is like saying the invention of cars went wrong cause we still have car accidents. For every powerful force in the world, it will be a source of good and bad things. The internet has changed the world, increased communication, allowed peopl…

I think he is afraid of the directionthe internet is taking. All the most important benefits we have gained from the internet will be undone if every nation and every isp censors and filters too much content. China is becoming a model for the rest of the world, and we are in danger of losing it all, or even worse; being manipulated into thinking we did not.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#210

Post by carapace »

Just for perspective: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Xanadu

> Project Xanadu was the first hypertext project, founded in 1960 by Ted Nelson. Administrators of Project Xanadu have declared it an improvement over the World Wide Web, with the mission statement: "Today's popular software simulates paper. The World Wide Web (another imitation of paper) trivialises our original hypertext model with one-way ever-breaking links and no management of version or contents."

(Unfortunately, the Wikipedia article proceeds to reference a Wired magazine "hit piece" in the next paragraph. Ignore that, read this:)

Here's an interview with Nelson: https://www.ics.uci.edu/~ejw/csr/nelson_pg.html

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