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Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

latimes.com

191–200 of 327 posts

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your theory of how the internet has "lifted so many people out of poverty". I'm not saying I disagree with it necessarily, I don't even understand what you're suggesting enough to disagree or agree with it. It's definitely not _obvious_ to me that the internet has somehow lifted so many people out of poverty, I just don't understand what you mean.

Created jobs, increased global trade, allowed for people to teach themselves, new types of products available, higher awareness about what is going on around you, technology share, open source, free products etc.

[deleted]

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#192
post #134

> Blockchain, the technology that underpins bitcoin and other digital currencies, also offers the promise of irrefutable, indisputable data ledgers. I see a recurring pattern here. While we have huge potential here, there's a significant danger that the same kind of centralized control emerges out of decentralized structure just as with the Internet. I hope enough people working on and using blockchain technology in…

I think it will be different based on the economics of the two systems. On the early internet it was extremely cheap to host a webpage either on your own computer or something like geocities and thus an explosion of content was created in a decentralized manner. Then the internet grew in popularity and it began to cost a lot of money to maintain all of the servers and bandwidth needed which cut off all of the smaller…

> On the early internet it was extremely cheap to host a webpage either on your own

It still is. You can get your website hosted for $5/mo.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#193
"This means websites should provide a privacy policy customized to you, something they should be able to do since they already customize the ads you see."

No, thanks, I just want it to work.

"Websites should also be required to take responsibility for any violations and abuses of privacy that result from their services."

Yes, please.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#195
He doesn't mention the Worm of 1988[1]. The only reason it spread was because sendmail(1) would allow any remote sender to spawn a shell on your system. This was by design, and left in place because these researchers were naive and utopian. Then Robert Morris Jr came along and abused it. To me, that was the inflection point of the nascent Internet: the naivete of these researchers met the harsh reality of real human behavior and lost.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#196
This is another good example for a broader issue we're noticing lately: we've been creating enabling technology and liberal laws, supporting migration, tolerating religions as well as various modern ideologies and (late) in the process we suddenly realized that our central assumption, that all people are sufficiently smart, educated, willing to participate in our society as positive forces, was completely wrong. So we're now beginning to shut down liberal policies, least harmful ones first - but it's a) wrong and b) too late anyway. We need closed, selective communities rather than inclusive, totalitarian ones - online and "offline".

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#197
I like the idea of improving the technology side, but another thing we should try to bring back is Netiquette - basically civility all users of this global network used to be expected to agree to.

I think YC is a good example of this working in practice, so why not expose more of the world to the idea again?

Endless September [0], when AOL connected to the Internet, should be waining soon since their subscriber base is finally disappearing right?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#198
"We were nerds in our element, busily answering the challenge to create new technology that would benefit the world."

I think this is the problem. "Nerds" (only to reuse the term Kleinrock chose) like to think that we are above politics, that all that matters is the purity of the science of whatever we're creating.

But "politics" is just another word for "the interaction of people at scale". We are people who are building technology for people. We cannot forget that, without all these people in the mix, there is no point.

I will reiterate that to make myself clear: science with no regard for people is useless. Masturbation at best.

I think this one failure of thinking is what is responsible for a lot of the ills in our industry today. We have companies that exploit workers because workers are only thinking of the tech. We have products and services that exploit users because the people in the act of building them are only thinking about the tech.

I'm working in a field that has a similar blindness right now. In VR and AR, we recognize that there is a huge potential for good from our tech. And it's amazing tech to be working on. But only a few people are talking seriously about the potential for abuse. Combine the dream of AR tech with deep fakes and you've got a huge propaganda tool of the like we've never seen before. Even simple issues of making sure our tech doesn't physically harm people gets sloughed off as "oh, we'll figure that out later."

NO! We need to figure these things out now, before we lose the keys to the castle to the MBAs of the world. Right now, the industry isn't taken very seriously, it's mostly viewed as just a toy, or as only a tool for industrial process training and automation. It's basically the Internet all over again. We have a professional responsibility to get this right.

I don't agree with Kleinrock's intimation that competition is a bad thing. I think he isn't thinking clearly on just how competitive the academic environment can be, how competition is a redundancy that ensures robustness and drives innovation forward. The Space Race didn't advance for academics playing nicely together, it advanced for US academics trying to best USSR academics, and vice versa.

Given that Facebook is one of the biggest players in the field right now, we may have already lost.

We should be treating the Facebooks of the world as our generation's USSR. We should be competing against them in the most vigorous way possible. And we should be doing that not just with tech, but with politics. Educating people on the dangers of misused technology. Pushing forward safety regulation--both physical and information safety--just like the FAA requires safe designs before allowing mass production of any aircraft.

We have to get this right.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#199
post #155
post #103

I find this post quite disappointing. I don't mean to come off harsh but it is quite naive and utopian and I cannot take the call to arms seriously. Saying the internet went wrong is like saying the invention of cars went wrong cause we still have car accidents. For every powerful force in the world, it will be a source of good and bad things. The internet has changed the world, increased communication, allowed peopl…

You mentioned cars, which is good comparison. Obviously, cars are essential. But here is short a list of completely unnecessary issues brought on by greed and industry: * The health and societal cost of leaded gasoline and the industry resistance to transitioning to unleaded. * The Automobile industry purchase and subsequent removal of train and light rail tracks in the United States. * The Automobile industry resist…

He mentioned car, which is an awful comparison. Cars should never have been invented and they are the worst thing that happened to humanity. Just imagine how much money has been wasted into cars, and roads, when any other mean of transportation would have been more efficient.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#200
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small nitpick : Hindi not Hindu. The former is language which one can learn. The latter is, depending on how you ask, is a (group of) religion(s)/way of life. On the other hand, let’s compare internet to nuclear fission. Clearly lot benefits can be drawn from the technology (assuming safety practices etc) but in our current world order it is primarily used as a deterrent. So I don’t think OP is complaining unnecessar…

I have been a science and technology enthusiast all of my life. I started running my own BBS over 30 years ago on a Commodore64. To say that I am passionate would be an understatement. Alas, lately I am becoming a Luddite. Feature creep is the enemy. I don't want or need an 'info-tainment' screen in my vehicle. I refuse to join the Apple or Google walled gardens. The warnings from Science Fiction have been ignored, a…

I would like to agree with you, but I am not sure I understand how internet has been weaponized. Can you please elaborate on how the internet is/can harm?
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