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Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

latimes.com

31–40 of 327 posts

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#31
Nobody invented the internet. It was only a matter of time before computers sent messages over far distances, like phones had already done. The internet isn't broken. There are millions of Internets just like the one the author laments losing, only they are for other people. The mainstream web is what has people down, because it's a reflection of the mainstream, which has long been foul. The problem there is using mainstream internet instead of using 50 year old technology to create your own networks.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#32
post #19
post #6

"You should be able to clearly articulate your preferred privacy policy and reject websites that don’t meet your standards." It occurs to me that this could be a rough description of ad blocking extensions, although rather like the Aldous Huxley quote about means determining ends, ad blockers are the result of an adversarial relationship rather than a consensual one.

Not exactly in my opinion. My understanding of the passage is that he wants to block the entire website outright. So not, "Look at reddit, but block ads." Rather it would be, "Block reddit." Curiously, blocking the entire website outright due to incompatible privacy policies is a solution I never really even considered? It certainly changes the dynamic game theoretically speaking. I wonder what the internet would be…

This is effectively what we should be doing: Either accept what the site is offering (content monetized by ads and data collection) or don't. But what happened instead is entitlement: People decided they had the right to view that content without paying it's cost, and went for ad blockers instead.

As much as I loathe ads, I am still surprised ad blockers work: That vastly more websites haven't simply made it impossible to view them without either seeing the ads or paying money/subscribing.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#33
post #7

It didn't go wrong. It went very well. It didn't turn into the idealized vision that the author apparently had for it, but that's not unusual.

something definitely went wrong, imo. when that pizzahut website link was posted a few days ago, i felt nostalgic about old web pages. most of them were about favorite topics, shows, hobbies and links! friends (the show) had thousands of fan made websites. websites linked to other websites with similar interest. now it's all about "us" and "me". we don't even link to other websites anymore. blog rolls and guestbooks…

> we don't even link to other websites anymore.

Meaning, there is no WWW anymore. (Just a bunch of isolated load-on-demand apps distributed by a network.)

Edit: Is this why Google Chrome is hiding the "www." sub-domain prefix, because it doesn't apply anymore? ;-)

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#35
> "Citizen-users need to hold websites more accountable. When was the last time a website asked what privacy policy you would like applied to you? My guess is never."

Wrong guess. This happens multiple times per day, thanks to the GDPR legislation in the EU. Annoying, but also correct. I take great effort to disable everything I don't like (ad tracking in particular), and like the article says I should:

> "You should be able to clearly articulate your preferred privacy policy and reject websites that don’t meet your standards."

There are increasingly websites I refuse to use because they don't work in a way I consider acceptable.

Some major websites are surprisingly broken. Twitter on Firefox on Android, for example, is notoriously bad.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#37
post #7

It didn't go wrong. It went very well. It didn't turn into the idealized vision that the author apparently had for it, but that's not unusual.

something definitely went wrong, imo. when that pizzahut website link was posted a few days ago, i felt nostalgic about old web pages. most of them were about favorite topics, shows, hobbies and links! friends (the show) had thousands of fan made websites. websites linked to other websites with similar interest. now it's all about "us" and "me". we don't even link to other websites anymore. blog rolls and guestbooks…

Yes, this is a common topic between my girlfriend and me. Internet as we know it (we grew up in the 2000s with MSN, forums, etc) doesnt exist anymore.

First (at least for us, for other people there would be another "first") were the basic webpages done in Frontpage or Dreamweaver (if you had enough RAM), uploaded to free webservers like Tripod, Lycos, Geocities, copying and pasting scripts found out there to remove popups and iframes, reading Photoshop tutorials to do some effects or gifs animations. Everything were more crafted, it took more time to do these kind of things (now everything is an app or a drag and drop).

Then came the second version of the internet. Everything was a bit "more pro" - even amateur fansites payed for their hosting, they had forums, online chats, etc. The open source community allowed this. From Wordpress with its themes to phpBB2 forums, vBulletin, etc. Oh, I miss those days.

Then slowly all of that was lost. Nowadays we only have social accounts for things. Fansites? Only accounts on Twitter, INstagram, YouTuber. Ask an INfluencer if they have their own website. What for? Everything is centralized.

My dad, who started using a smartphone just 2 or 3 years ago, doesn't fully understand what the internet is. For him, it's just a set of apps (Whatsapp, Facebook, and the website of his fav newspaper). Outside that he doesn't understand there is (or there was) a full world of websites with a lot of contents.

It makes me sad because "the original internet" will be never be like what we experienced. I don't know who to blame for, tho. If I were in the shoes of Facebook or Twitter's founders I would have done the same. But they definitely have eaten all the webpages around them.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#38
"Hey, a long time ago, when the only people that used it were just like me, things were really pleasant."

There is a lot of conflict in the world. As the pool of people on the network grows and changes they will bring conflict with them into this arena. It's a kind of naivete that sees the homogenous origin of the network as a better time.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#39
post #7

It didn't go wrong. It went very well. It didn't turn into the idealized vision that the author apparently had for it, but that's not unusual.

something definitely went wrong, imo. when that pizzahut website link was posted a few days ago, i felt nostalgic about old web pages. most of them were about favorite topics, shows, hobbies and links! friends (the show) had thousands of fan made websites. websites linked to other websites with similar interest. now it's all about "us" and "me". we don't even link to other websites anymore. blog rolls and guestbooks…

Your posting this on a website that is pretty much exclusively links to other websites, "hey I made this" stuff, and people talking about their hobbies.

I think it went /okay/.

Re: Leonard Kleinrock on what went wrong with the internet

#40

I don’t agree the internet had “ethical roots.” Drugs were sold on the internet since the 80s. And the whole thing was funded in the name of warfare. Also the idealized notion that the internet allows for more extremism, as if the thoughts people express online would not be possible in the brains of these people had they stayed offline, make no sense. I think the article is correct to assume the internet will become…

>once they gain the ability to will control their internet very tightly //

Did you have some particular ability in mind here that countries don't already have? Countries sensor the web, turn off access to services (social media), and such, already.

I can imagine on-the-fly editing might help countries, but can't really see what else you might have in mind?

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