Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

v4.chriskrycho.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 400 posts

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#321

Post by lilyball »

bob1029 wrote: post #305
Shank wrote: post #153

Maybe I'm the only one, but when I start looking into a project, I start at the API docs and work from there. I really need to know if key features I want are viable on the platform or not. If I want to use an accessibility API to, in a supported way, read all of the items in every menu in the menu bar, how do I do that? Is it supported? Is there a set of best practices I should follow? The problem with not documenti…

You are not the only one. My most recent experience with Apple's documentation (regarding some iOS 13 API concern), left me with a sense of impending doom and hopelessness. After about 5 minutes I gave up and went back to playing the google/stackoverflow search game. I have become very addicted to the quality of Microsoft's documentation for things like .Net Core & C#, and have found it virtually impossible to tolera…

It's unclear to me what you think Exhibit B is demonstrating. That's the documentation for CIColor.init(red:green:blue:alpha:), and it's documented. It creates a CIColor with the specified red/green/blue/alpha components. This is literally just a model object.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#322

Post by Dylan16807 »

gatherhunterer wrote: post #244
chooseaname wrote: post #9

> Apple, if you want developers to love your platform — and you should, because good developers are your lifeblood — and if you don’t want them to flee for other platforms — and you should be worried about that, because the web is everywhere and Microsoft is coming for you — then you need to take this seriously. Adopt the mentality that has served other frameworks and languages so well: If it isn’t documented, it isn…

You criticize their rabid fans but aren’t you just as irrational? You have made claims that are so bizarre they cannot be supported by evidence. You are making emotional attacks that sound like someone talking about their high school bully. I don’t know how you convinced yourself that Apple is more interested in being aloof than in making changes that would help them make money but that belief is just as ridiculous a…

> You have made claims that are so bizarre they cannot be supported by evidence.

I, uh, example please? "Apple doesn't need to care" is in no way bizarre.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#323

Post by jariel »

canada_dry wrote: post #311
WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really funny to think about cyclical stuff and see how Blackberry used to treat their developers like shit (with stupid signing keys and stuff) and just look at Apple falling into the same trap.

When speaking to Blackberry execs (10+ yrs ago) about their abysmal developer support I pointed to apple.com/developer as an example of how it should be done. Blackberry's lack of developer support was surely one of the key reasons for its failure. Apple seriously needs to re-focus.

As someone with 'insider' insight into BlackBerry ...

I would say the issue is complicated:

1) BlackBerry was never thought of internally as a 'platform' more of a 'solution' (i.e. you get what you get out of the box) - apps were a little secondary. That perspective was too slow to evolve.

2) The original Java APIs were not very well thought out - part of the problem in 'great docs' was that the underlying platform wasn't very good to begin with.

3) BlackBerry was a tiny company compared to Apple and Google. When BB launched maps, there was no 'mapping team'. There were 0 people dedicated to mapping. G had I think more than 100 at the time, just dedicated to that. BB was growing rapidly, but had found itself jammed between Apple and Google - two of the most magnificent and well capitalised companies in the world.

I'm still amazed that BB had all the features it did given how small the teams were. Most of the handheld - hardware and software - was developed in one little building - you could literally know everyone working on it personally if you worked there.

3) All of that said - the docs were not that bad. Everything was technically documented. The support teams were decent, just small.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#325

Post by computerex »

lilyball wrote: post #321
bob1029 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not the only one. My most recent experience with Apple's documentation (regarding some iOS 13 API concern), left me with a sense of impending doom and hopelessness. After about 5 minutes I gave up and went back to playing the google/stackoverflow search game. I have become very addicted to the quality of Microsoft's documentation for things like .Net Core & C#, and have found it virtually impossible to tolera…

It's unclear to me what you think Exhibit B is demonstrating. That's the documentation for CIColor.init(red:green:blue:alpha:), and it's documented. It creates a CIColor with the specified red/green/blue/alpha components. This is literally just a model object.

There are no examples.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#326

Post by marijnz »

lilyball wrote: post #321
bob1029 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not the only one. My most recent experience with Apple's documentation (regarding some iOS 13 API concern), left me with a sense of impending doom and hopelessness. After about 5 minutes I gave up and went back to playing the google/stackoverflow search game. I have become very addicted to the quality of Microsoft's documentation for things like .Net Core & C#, and have found it virtually impossible to tolera…

It's unclear to me what you think Exhibit B is demonstrating. That's the documentation for CIColor.init(red:green:blue:alpha:), and it's documented. It creates a CIColor with the specified red/green/blue/alpha components. This is literally just a model object.

A more fair comparison for B is probably https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.drawing.c.... Still illustrates the point, it's more informative.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#327

Post by kbenson »

CharlesColeman wrote: post #319
kbenson wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: What's the purpose of the throwaway account for this? Is there some blow-back that you expect from this? Is there some NDA that precludes you from even talking about it years later? Do you think it reflects negatively on your years later?

>> The Symbian documentation team was tiny, perhaps 20 people at most. At an offsite we would pretty much fit round two tables at most. ... Source: I was there. > What's the purpose of the throwaway account for this? My guess is they want keep their other account pseudonymous, and admitting that they were one of a specific team of 20 people at a specific company goes a long way towards unambiguously identifying them.…

Ah, that's true, good point. As someone that has mentioned more than enough information to definitively identify myself online with this account, I guess I've adjusted enough that I didn't even consider that.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#328

Post by x0x0 »

CharlesColeman wrote: post #319
kbenson wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: What's the purpose of the throwaway account for this? Is there some blow-back that you expect from this? Is there some NDA that precludes you from even talking about it years later? Do you think it reflects negatively on your years later?

>> The Symbian documentation team was tiny, perhaps 20 people at most. At an offsite we would pretty much fit round two tables at most. ... Source: I was there. > What's the purpose of the throwaway account for this? My guess is they want keep their other account pseudonymous, and admitting that they were one of a specific team of 20 people at a specific company goes a long way towards unambiguously identifying them.…

I'm not the person, but I had an HN leaderboard member pitch a tantrum at me about a programming opinion on here, and imply that my opinions were representative of my employer. It's a good reason to stay pseudonymous.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#329

Post by computerex »

gatherhunterer wrote: post #244
chooseaname wrote: post #9

> Apple, if you want developers to love your platform — and you should, because good developers are your lifeblood — and if you don’t want them to flee for other platforms — and you should be worried about that, because the web is everywhere and Microsoft is coming for you — then you need to take this seriously. Adopt the mentality that has served other frameworks and languages so well: If it isn’t documented, it isn…

You criticize their rabid fans but aren’t you just as irrational? You have made claims that are so bizarre they cannot be supported by evidence. You are making emotional attacks that sound like someone talking about their high school bully. I don’t know how you convinced yourself that Apple is more interested in being aloof than in making changes that would help them make money but that belief is just as ridiculous a…

https://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/apple-responds-over-ipho...

https://9to5mac.com/2019/02/11/italian-apple-homepage-to-add...

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/28/16827248/apple-iphone-ba...

https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3032188/apple-face...

These is just a very small subset of incidents with Apple where Apple failed to right their wrongs and was ultimately forced to do so by public and or legal pressure. Apple as a company is known for ignoring feedback altogether.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#330

Post by saagarjha »

DerekL wrote: post #246
accatyyc wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Objective-C (and some other languages with ternary operators) the same can be written like this: int a = b ?: c ?: 0

That's not specific to Objective-C, it's a GCC extension to the C language.

(Which Clang happens to support, hence it working here.)
Post reply on HN