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Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

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Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#301

Post by ngcc_hk »

Reading hundred comments and the op is about the lack of documentation. Swift is a good language to learn but api no. The discussion might explain it. But should there be one to address that issue as an ecosystem.

For example ask Apple to do something and let them sort that out using their employee. Or some web site (I use one particular to help me).

Swift is a language like lisp or clojure. You may look at its architecture etc to see whether it is built in issue (lisp is easy but its library is not, say). Or it is really just a hiring issue.

Or may I just ask how to address the original question if it is just language lack of good doc.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#302

Post by FpUser »

scarface74 wrote: post #238
FpUser wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just expressing my own opinion about "status symbol". Why would I care about being in line with whatever "longitudinal trends" there are

Well. An opinion about something “being a status symbol” should be able to come up with some basis in fact. By definition, a “status symbol” is something that you buy to show that you have more “status” than the majority of people because you can buy something that most people can’t. If the majority of people can get a product, how can it be a status symbol?

>If the majority of people can get a product, how can it be a status symbol?

Simple. If you have it you're ok. if not you are a marginal

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#303

Post by jschwartzi »

govg wrote: post #177
ben_jones wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the merit of these exercises is from reading the candidate's reaction to meaningless and trivial tasks. If they take it with a smile, or better yet if they spent part of their free time studying it in detail, they will make a terrific cog in the machine...

To be honest, as a part of hiring procedure, it has its merits. In an ideal world, you want to ask the candidates a problem that is well defined, and applies the tools that they might have learned in their past. This is why algorithmic problems are common - a large pool of candidates have recently finished school, they have a lot of fundamental knowledge from their experience there (and nothing else), and asking thes…

Where this falls down is when you're hiring someone who has 10 or 15 years of experience and has forgotten more about day-to-day product development than the freshers have learned about algorithms. So you're asking that guy questions that the freshers have fresh in their minds because it's all they know, and it's totally unsurprising that he fails because he hasn't ever used that knowledge in a work setting. You do need to tailor your interviews to the person's experience level. If you're hiring for experience, ask that person about process and about team forming and about mentoring and leadership. You don't have to be able to write a perfect algorithm as a senior, only to help your juniors over the hurdles keeping them from doing it themselves.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#304

Post by microtherion »

arcticbull wrote: post #298
microtherion wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking only for myself, before I interview someone, I definitely look at their resume and prepare a few questions about it. I also look at github accounts if they were mentioned in the resume, but I tend to downweight them for a number of reasons: 1) You can't always be 100% sure the code was actually written by the candidate. 2) One quality I'm looking for in particular is somebody who can work well with OTHER PEO…

I feel like I get a lot of this signal with much less noise by asking someone in the moment to “tell me about something you’ve built.” While you can lie on a resume it’s much harder to lie about that on the spot but it should be really easy for you to tell me about something you cared enough about to make.

Agree, and one of the reasons I skim github repos is to ask questions about some of the projects.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#305

Post by bob1029 »

Shank wrote: post #153

Maybe I'm the only one, but when I start looking into a project, I start at the API docs and work from there. I really need to know if key features I want are viable on the platform or not. If I want to use an accessibility API to, in a supported way, read all of the items in every menu in the menu bar, how do I do that? Is it supported? Is there a set of best practices I should follow? The problem with not documenti…

You are not the only one.

My most recent experience with Apple's documentation (regarding some iOS 13 API concern), left me with a sense of impending doom and hopelessness. After about 5 minutes I gave up and went back to playing the google/stackoverflow search game.

I have become very addicted to the quality of Microsoft's documentation for things like .Net Core & C#, and have found it virtually impossible to tolerate reading documentation from any other vendor at this point. A completely arbitrary but hopefully obvious side-by-side comparison:

Exhibit A:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.linq.enum...

Exhibit B:

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/coreimage/cicolor/...

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#306

Post by saagarjha »

moftz wrote: post #215
phendrenad2 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think Google and Apple were making a poor choice by doing this kind of interview, but I wonder now if it gets the results they want: they want interchangeable cogs that don't stand out too much. They want known quantities. If you're "the documentation guy" or "the security-testing girl", you've wasted time learning skills they won't utilize, since they want you to be exactly like every other developer. If d…

HR wants the cogs that are flexible because they can cram them somewhere whenever the company wants spin down a team and move the personnel elsewhere. This is great for big companies that just need warm bodies to crank out crap however it's an inefficient process when you look at the lower level. You have a larger team of people that are less familiar with the task that a smaller team of experts could handle better a…

Most engineers at Apple are assigned to one (small) team, including new college graduates.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#307

Post by saagarjha »

tonyjstark wrote: post #283
trangon wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leetcode is just a game that you have to play to get into these companies. I suspect that OP had other interview rounds that went poorly. There is always a chance of getting a bad interviewer, but it doesn’t often happen in every single round.

I never understand this kind of comments. Is there a reason why OP should have bad intentions when writing the comment? The article is about Apple not providing sufficient documentation for their APIs and OP wrote about a experience that supports reasoning why Apple seemingly is not focusing on delivering documentation. So how about giving reasonable arguments why OP probably had rounds that went poorly and is salty…

> The article is about Apple not providing sufficient documentation for their APIs and OP wrote about a experience that supports reasoning why Apple seemingly is not focusing on delivering documentation.

FWIW, I don't see how "I tried to add documentation in my interview and my interviewer didn't like it" translates to "everyone at Apple hates documentation".

> The MapKit programming guide is still in Objective-C, old design and outdated.

Objective-C guides are not inherently old and outdated.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#308

Post by shagie »

optimuspaul wrote: post #300
trangon wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leetcode is just a game that you have to play to get into these companies. I suspect that OP had other interview rounds that went poorly. There is always a chance of getting a bad interviewer, but it doesn’t often happen in every single round.

I think it's bullshit that "Leetcode" is a game you have to play. I've been in the software business for 25 years and not once had to use any of that knowledge in my work. When those games come up in interviews with me I call them out, if they hold fast I walk. I don't need to have my time wasted. My experience should speak for itself.

In several career focused communities where the majority of the readership is people with less than 5 (and often seeking first job)... where the focus is on Big N positions...

there is a common answer of “study leetcode”. No other advice, just the belief and assertion that all you need to get one of those jobs is to score higher than the other people.

This idea unfortunately perpetuates itself as one person advises another and a person.

The number of leetcode questions solved is used in the inevitable male appendage sizing contests.

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#309

Post by verletx64 »

arcticbull wrote: post #280
pjmlp wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully in many regions we still have the choice not to go through hiring games.

I agree with you that in an ideal world there'd be a way for you to demonstrate your prowess without playing these games. However, in the real world, I want a job, I'm going to play? It's not like I don't solve hard engineering puzzles for fun on my own time anyways. Framing matters a lot! Here's what I like about interviews: (1) I get to talk about myself and how great I am without people rolling their eyes at me. (…

Seriously though, in Europe the Algorithmic style interview is not the norm, by and large

Re: Apple Developer Documentation Is Missing

#310

Post by arcticbull »

verletx64 wrote: post #309
arcticbull wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that in an ideal world there'd be a way for you to demonstrate your prowess without playing these games. However, in the real world, I want a job, I'm going to play? It's not like I don't solve hard engineering puzzles for fun on my own time anyways. Framing matters a lot! Here's what I like about interviews: (1) I get to talk about myself and how great I am without people rolling their eyes at me. (…

Seriously though, in Europe the Algorithmic style interview is not the norm, by and large

Interesting, what's the process there like?
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