Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Review: Enchantments of Mammon: How Capitalism Became the Religion of Modernity

bostonreview.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–27 of 27 posts

Re: Review: Enchantments of Mammon: How Capitalism Became the Religion of Modernity

#21

Post by rcoveson »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #14
rcoveson wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is deeply insulting to everybody in history who has lived in a society that has in fact completely failed. Respect your relative paradise. I guarantee you won't discover anything superior to "the west" unless you acknowledge the many things it has gotten right.

Your faith is strong brother.

Why is this attitude so prevalent? You make an extreme and unsubstantiated statement denying any merit to one side of a contentious issue. Somebody predictable comes along and argues that there is demonstrated merit on that side and it must be acknowledged if we want to improve upon it. And you respond with disdain, so sure that anybody who dared question your radical position must be totally blindly loyal to the other side to the same extent that you are to yours.

What do you or anybody else gain from that? If I'm just responding to a troll account then I guess that's on me. But if not, please explain your motivations. Why are you publishing far-out opinions and then lashing out when disagreed with? It's exactly how anti-vax advocates and flat-earthers behave.

Re: Review: Enchantments of Mammon: How Capitalism Became the Religion of Modernity

#22

Post by WalterBright »

megaman821 wrote: post #19
Gibbon1 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would appear that the 40 year experiment in the west has failed completely though.

Let's say it has failed you personally. You are probably not the only person that feels that way. What in a capitalist society is stopping you from forming a community that is far more socialist? All the companies in your community can be employee-owned. You are free to tax yourselves to provide social services above and beyond the baseline. Why not show the capitalists how your system is superior?

That's true. There's nothing illegal at all about starting your own commune in the US. In fact, I think as many as tens of thousands have been created over the years. All of them either (1) failed (2) became capitalistic (3) have a constant turnover of members.

Re: Review: Enchantments of Mammon: How Capitalism Became the Religion of Modernity

#23

Post by tempguy9999 »

WalterBright wrote: post #20
tempguy9999 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all the stuff in your dwelling, etc., all from capitalism The value of those things depends on whether they were produced in ways that takes externalities into consideration ie. I fear we're destroying the ecosystem to create those. You haven't made clear where you stand on that, and it's crucial to understanding each others positions. I'd be grateful if you'd address that. re. enron, from https://en.wikipedia.org/…

> I'd be grateful if you'd address that Sure. I propose that externalities (like pollution) be taxed, in order to "internalize the externalities". > That doesn't fit in with what you said. That refers to the accounting. I was referring to their manipulation of prices, which was only made possible by California's fixing of consumer electricity rates. As for accounting fraud, that's illegal and not free market.

I'm all good with this. Nice to get straight answers to straight questions. Thanks.

Re: Review: Enchantments of Mammon: How Capitalism Became the Religion of Modernity

#24

Post by toastal »

WalterBright wrote: post #6
ktaylora wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The faith part comes from interpreting the economic results of capitalism. Do you accept it as a useful economic system given all the problems you see with it? Are you willing to entertain the possibility of alternatives? If not, why?

> The faith part comes from interpreting the economic results of capitalism Interpreting results comes from evidence, not faith. One constructs a theory based on evidence. One tests the theory by seeing if future evidence behaves like the theory suggests. Religion isn't like that, it does not predict things in a way that is testable. Creationism, for example, makes zero predictions and so is not at all testable, maki…

The weren't created by capitalism, these things we have were often created by workers--who are often exploited under capitalism, because like the review states, because capitalism is value the wrong things like profits and abundance over societal well-being. Profits are just easier to measure even if they're not a useful measure of good.

Re: Review: Enchantments of Mammon: How Capitalism Became the Religion of Modernity

#25

Post by WalterBright »

toastal wrote: post #24
WalterBright wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The faith part comes from interpreting the economic results of capitalism Interpreting results comes from evidence, not faith. One constructs a theory based on evidence. One tests the theory by seeing if future evidence behaves like the theory suggests. Religion isn't like that, it does not predict things in a way that is testable. Creationism, for example, makes zero predictions and so is not at all testable, maki…

The weren't created by capitalism, these things we have were often created by workers--who are often exploited under capitalism, because like the review states, because capitalism is value the wrong things like profits and abundance over societal well-being. Profits are just easier to measure even if they're not a useful measure of good.

In the US, you and other exploited workers are free to quit your jobs and start your own workers' cooperatives and produce whatever you like and share the results.

Re: Review: Enchantments of Mammon: How Capitalism Became the Religion of Modernity

#26

Post by Gibbon1 »

rcoveson wrote: post #21
Gibbon1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your faith is strong brother.

Why is this attitude so prevalent? You make an extreme and unsubstantiated statement denying any merit to one side of a contentious issue. Somebody predictable comes along and argues that there is demonstrated merit on that side and it must be acknowledged if we want to improve upon it. And you respond with disdain, so sure that anybody who dared question your radical position must be totally blindly loyal to the oth…

Keep the faith!

Re: Review: Enchantments of Mammon: How Capitalism Became the Religion of Modernity

#27

Post by eeZah7Ux »

WalterBright wrote: post #16
dieterrams2 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re crediting capitalism with solving the very problems it created.

All human societies produce pollution, going back to the very beginning. In fact, archaeologists love to study ancient trash heaps.

The amount of pollution per person varies wildly. Some societies were perfectly sustainable.

Among the most capitalistic and consumerist societies (e.g. US) the pollution is staggering.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspicuous_consumption

Post reply on HN