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Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

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Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#361

Post by curryst »

chrismorgan wrote: post #57
Razengan wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their accessibility stack is still lightyears before Android. Don't you mean "ahead of"?

That’s what that means, “before” being the opposite of “behind”. It’s just not as common a construction in most English locales as it used to be. It does still get more restricted usage in this sense: when considering the future, “this is what lies before us” wouldn’t sound out of place.

Out of this context, I would assume that "before" is being used as a location instead of a temporal reference. I.e. "this" referring to some kind of object; "the food was laid before us".

As a temporal reference, it's definitely valid, but it bears a somewhat highfalutin connotation. It sounds like someone who is trying to wax poetic.

Not that I would fault a non-native speaker for using it; it's a very nuanced and probably subjective interpretation.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#362

Post by tobr »

tobr wrote: post #78
NobodyNada wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari 13 is supported on Mojave. You can install it in System Preferences->Software Updates (there's a link that says "more updates" or "other updates" or something along those lines).

Thanks you, I did not know this. I looked into it a few days ago and Apple’s support page[1] seemed to tell me pretty clearly that I had to upgrade. I know see the small print that says: > For some earlier versions of macOS, Safari might also be available separately from the Updates tab of the App Store. 1: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204416

I suppose no-one is reading this thread anymore, but for the record I was now able to check, and I do not have an option to download Safari, neither in the App Store nor after clicking the secret link in System Preferences.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#363

Post by tobr »

EasyTiger_ wrote: post #198
tobr wrote: post #55

Tangentially related: GitHub has already dropped support for Mojave. The whole site is now broken in Safari 12 because it’s no longer the “current” version of the browser. Well, it is if you run Mojave, as you need to upgrade the entire system to get Safari 13. I can understand not developing new features for Safari 12, but speaking of regressions, why would you go break things that used to work a week ago?

This is complete disinformation yet is one of the top comments?

Sorry, what is complete disinformation? I suppose I was wrong to say it isn’t possible to update to Safari 13 without updating the OS as people say they have done it. But I genuinely don’t have the option, after checking everywhere I’ve been instructed to.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#364

Post by mschaef »

fizx wrote: post #332
mschaef wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Apple also spent 10% of its revenue on processing bug reports and fixing bugs Just to be clear, you're suggesting they dedicate $25B/year to bug fixing? Seems high, given their total R&D budget for 2018 was only ~56% of that. https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/05/apple-2018-form-10-k-hi...

That's around 100,000 engineers worth of salary. Good luck (:

No kidding... it would be hard to find that number of engineers at the level Apple needs, much less organize them all, so they're pulling in the same general direction.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#365

Post by mschaef »

windexh8er wrote: post #214
mschaef wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Apple also spent 10% of its revenue on processing bug reports and fixing bugs Just to be clear, you're suggesting they dedicate $25B/year to bug fixing? Seems high, given their total R&D budget for 2018 was only ~56% of that. https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/05/apple-2018-form-10-k-hi...

The number doesn't matter. It's the precedent being set that Apple takes bug reports, and investigations into them, seriously through a percentage of revenue. It could be 10% of something more in-line with Mac OS X - like 10% of revenue from OS X app store sales. Either way the point is that Apple should be concerned about quality of software far more than it is. I submitted a bug to Apple about how the Apple login p…

> Either way the point is that Apple should be concerned about quality of software far more than it is. I submitted a bug to Apple about how the Apple login page was rejecting requests from browser headers from Linux machines. ... Apple didn't care until it got mainstream press.

Can you provide a link? I'd be interested to read how it played out. My gut reaction is that number of people logging into Apple's site from Linux is a tiny fraction of their market. At first glance, it doesn't seem surprising to me that they'd prioritize other things.

> How many bugs like that go unaddressed even though someone has spent the time and effort documenting and submitting it?

I'm not sure I agree with the implicit assumption you seem to be making that spending time and effort documenting a bug entitles you to a call on a development organization's resources, time, and prioritization.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#366

Post by mschaef »

Strom wrote: post #213
mschaef wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Apple also spent 10% of its revenue on processing bug reports and fixing bugs Just to be clear, you're suggesting they dedicate $25B/year to bug fixing? Seems high, given their total R&D budget for 2018 was only ~56% of that. https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/05/apple-2018-form-10-k-hi...

Sure, why not? It's not like they're doing anything else with the money. It doesn't have to be only software fixes either. There's plenty of hardware issues like the keyboard. The spending doesn't have to be instant either. Just start increasing the spending and measure user satisfaction and bug report counts. Once you've arrived deep into diminishing returns you can stop increasing the spending.

> Once you've arrived deep into diminishing returns you can stop increasing the spending.

How do you know they're not there now? It's hard to believe they're not thinking very carefully about these sorts of things, given how successful they've been establishing a place in the market.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#367

Post by Strom »

mschaef wrote: post #366
Strom wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, why not? It's not like they're doing anything else with the money. It doesn't have to be only software fixes either. There's plenty of hardware issues like the keyboard. The spending doesn't have to be instant either. Just start increasing the spending and measure user satisfaction and bug report counts. Once you've arrived deep into diminishing returns you can stop increasing the spending.

> Once you've arrived deep into diminishing returns you can stop increasing the spending. How do you know they're not there now? It's hard to believe they're not thinking very carefully about these sorts of things, given how successful they've been establishing a place in the market.

> How do you know they're not there now?

I don't know for a fact but I have more respect towards Apple than to think that the current state is the best they could do.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#368

Post by mschaef »

Strom wrote: post #367
mschaef wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once you've arrived deep into diminishing returns you can stop increasing the spending. How do you know they're not there now? It's hard to believe they're not thinking very carefully about these sorts of things, given how successful they've been establishing a place in the market.

> How do you know they're not there now? I don't know for a fact but I have more respect towards Apple than to think that the current state is the best they could do.

> I have more respect towards Apple than to think that the current state is the best they could do.

$265B in Revenue and and $59B in profit seems to indicate they're already doing pretty well. Maybe your definition of 'best' isn't in perfect alignment with the rest of the marketplace?

I get that there are things about their products you can point at and wish were done better, or at least differently. I use Apple products myself, so I have a list of these things myself. But, the thing is, this isn't unique to Apple. Have you ever been completely satisfied with a product or service? I can't really say that I have. About the best that I've ever been able to achieve is something that's a close enough approximation to my 'requirements' that I can adapt what I'm doing to make it a solution.

Point is - you're never going to find something perfect. There will always be a gap and hopefully effort on both sides to close that gap. Those financial numbers aren't a perfect indication by any means, but they do signal that Apple's doing a reasonably good job of closing that gap for a reasonably large number of people willing to part with their earnings to buy Apple's products.

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