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Private firefighters go to work for California's wealthy

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91–100 of 214 posts

Re: Private firefighters go to work for California's wealthy

#91
post #27

Interesting- I always thought the cyberpunk future of self-policed corporate-states would be here eventually, but I didn't think firefighters would be privatized in that manner before police.

The problem with municipal firefighters and police is that they are unionized and are self-interested parties. For instance, police unions always complain they don't have enough personnel and need more for reasons x, y, z, and the public usually buys that line and so we continuously are building a police state of mega proportions. These entities are helping to foment a pension crisis in every town, city, and county. It will break out into the open eventually as property and sales taxes rise to ridiculous levels.

Everyone thinks private police and firefighters are some kind of abomination, but I say that there is no perfect solution. I don't think massively expensive public services are cost effective although they do serve the public at large without discrimination (some members of the public are much more frequent fliers than others, of course). Private ambulance services now abound and are quite successful at controlling costs (because they don't pay the EMTs who staff them very well).

We need policing of some kind, we need fire and ambulance coverage of some kind. It should not be illegal to hire mercenary detectives or firefighters, it's a supposedly free country. What we don't want happening is deep pockets hiring police to enforce their own "laws" as took place in the 19th century with the notorious Pinkertons, who were little more than thugs that would come in and break up protests or unionization attempts. It was all very dirty business.

The firefighters in NYC were basically little more than gangs for most of their existence. A fire would break out, the firefighters would come and fight over who was going to put it out, and meanwhile they would immediately condemn the structure so that anything of value inside could be pilfered. That history is why we have better control over our public services in the first place--cops and firefighters were just thugs with their own agendas for most of US history. These days they don't outright rob regular people, but they certainly do act as enforcers or "King's Men" in most jurisdictions and are not fully accountable to the public. Somehow firefighters are more beknighted, but behind the scenes, there is much dirt there, too. Dirty politics, nepotism, poor ethics.

Re: Private firefighters go to work for California's wealthy

#92
post #70
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate tax is a red herring. Across the OECD, it makes up just 9% of tax revenue (just 6% in Sweden and Denmark). The US is about the same (8%). If you want to complain about tax revenue, point to the fact that Americans don’t pay VAT (like everyone in Europe does) on all the cheap crap they buy on Amazon. Or in the case of California, complain about Prop 13 limiting the property taxes people pay on McMansions. (W…

We pay sales tax. What's so special about VAT vs. sales tax? Unless you are arguing for a federal sales tax, which OK sure federal tax is great, except it doesn't pay for local services. Also, now you also have to argue about the regressive nature of sales tax in general.

A few differences:

- VAT is applied to business to business transactions. Sales taxes are just applied to consumer transactions.

- Sales taxes are applied to total amount of sales. The amount of VAT that the user pays is on the cost of the product, less any of the costs of materials used in the product that have already been taxed.

- Since value is not generally created in a second hand sale. (Unless the item is restored) VATs are usually not applied to used/second hand items. Sales taxes are.

Re: Private firefighters go to work for California's wealthy

#93
I see nothing wrong with this. If I'm wealthy and I can pay money for a service for risk management and the benefits outweigh the costs it makes sense. Private security vs police? Sure. Private jet vs common carrier? Sure. Private firefighter vs public? You guys lose your minds over that? I don't see what is wrong paying for extra protection. It's like owning a very expensive car and paying for extra insurance in case the person who hits you has no insurance.

Re: Private firefighters go to work for California's wealthy

#94
post #77
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

POTUS candidate Andrew Yang's foundation for his #1 policy/solution is a 10% VAT tax. Edit: Curious why facts are downvoted? Does HN not like discussing solutions and people actively working on solutions?

I'm not against sales tax; there are many benefits to it. However A 10% sales tax is a 10% tax on poor people's disposable income since they have almost no savings. How do we square that regressive circle?

In the UK at least a lot of "basic" things are exempt from VAT, although the rules are quite complex:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rates-of-vat-on-different-goods-...

Re: Private firefighters go to work for California's wealthy

#95
post #81
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We pay sales tax. What's so special about VAT vs. sales tax? Unless you are arguing for a federal sales tax, which OK sure federal tax is great, except it doesn't pay for local services. Also, now you also have to argue about the regressive nature of sales tax in general.

VAT is somewhat different in mechanics from sales tax, because it is collected along different points in the value chain. More important, VAT in Europe typically ranges from 20-25%, and has a broader tax base. In a typical European country, consumption taxes make up almost 30% of revenue, versus 17% in the US.

So you're arguing for an increase of our sales tax. That's different than saying we don't pay sales tax!

Now, I don't disagree that a mechanism that tames American consumption would be good, and is also counter cycle to the economy.

But the question remains unanswered: How about the effect of sales tax on people and families at the margins [0]? 20-25% sales tax is a lot for them. A sales tax rebate check at the end of the year like Canada does? $70 hardly covers the bite of the sales tax!

[0] Including my in-laws, so I'll admit this is a bit personal.

Re: Private firefighters go to work for California's wealthy

#96
post #70
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate tax is a red herring. Across the OECD, it makes up just 9% of tax revenue (just 6% in Sweden and Denmark). The US is about the same (8%). If you want to complain about tax revenue, point to the fact that Americans don’t pay VAT (like everyone in Europe does) on all the cheap crap they buy on Amazon. Or in the case of California, complain about Prop 13 limiting the property taxes people pay on McMansions. (W…

We pay sales tax. What's so special about VAT vs. sales tax? Unless you are arguing for a federal sales tax, which OK sure federal tax is great, except it doesn't pay for local services. Also, now you also have to argue about the regressive nature of sales tax in general.

I think the relevant difference is that VAT is paid even if you are in a different EU country.

I'm in Denmark, where the rate is 25%.

I pay 25% on something I order from a Danish online shop.

I pay 25% on something I order from a large German online shop, even though the VAT rate in Germany is lower.

I pay 19% (the German rate) on something I order from a small German shop, to reduce the administrative burden on that shop.

(In every case the advertised price includes VAT, although the middle case may use 19% until I input a delivery address, depending on how they guess my location.)

My understanding is that, in reality, people pay 0% in the USA if they order from a different state.

Re: Private firefighters go to work for California's wealthy

#97
The FOX TV Network would never run something like this. I find FOX properties online to be far less restrictive in what they can publish — even class struggles are fair game to post. This would never fly on FOX opinion shows on TV.

For the record, firefighters per neighborhood could work, but not multiple competing companies. We used to have that here in NYC. Here is a scene from Gangs of New York which is historically accurate and correctly mentions the Bowery Boys and the Municipal Police Riot (two diff sets of police)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DmsB5bcygB4

This, friends, is one of the potential pitfalls of anarcho-capitalist utopia

Re: Private firefighters go to work for California's wealthy

#98
post #67
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate tax is a red herring. Across the OECD, it makes up just 9% of tax revenue (just 6% in Sweden and Denmark). The US is about the same (8%). If you want to complain about tax revenue, point to the fact that Americans don’t pay VAT (like everyone in Europe does) on all the cheap crap they buy on Amazon. Or in the case of California, complain about Prop 13 limiting the property taxes people pay on McMansions. (W…

POTUS candidate Andrew Yang's foundation for his #1 policy/solution is a 10% VAT tax. Edit: Curious why facts are downvoted? Does HN not like discussing solutions and people actively working on solutions?

I almost never weigh in on political stuff. But, F* that. Do you want to be able to never afford anything? Because, that's a good start. What we really need to do is balance the budget by cutting back on the quantity and expensiveness of existing programs. The government needs to optimize. We are spending too much. Which are dirty words no one wants to hear or perform.

Re: Private firefighters go to work for California's wealthy

#99
post #64

A: "You have selected Amazon's Prime Fire service" A: "A fire-engine will be dispatched within 20 minutes" --- In another part of the country --- A: "We're sorry we don't provide Prime fire service for your location, please direct your query to the local authorities" Local fire department: "We will try and answer your call as soon as possible, but due to budget cuts from a reduced corporate tax income we have had to…

Corporate tax is a red herring. Across the OECD, it makes up just 9% of tax revenue (just 6% in Sweden and Denmark). The US is about the same (8%). If you want to complain about tax revenue, point to the fact that Americans don’t pay VAT (like everyone in Europe does) on all the cheap crap they buy on Amazon. Or in the case of California, complain about Prop 13 limiting the property taxes people pay on McMansions. (W…

VAT tax is regressive: https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/who-would-bear...

Re: Private firefighters go to work for California's wealthy

#100
post #33

I've seen similar variants of this headline floating around, so I don't want to over-blame this Fox outlet for something that's just in the water by this point (I don't recall if they were all on Fox-family outlets, but probably not). That said, the headline seems pretty manipulative... > However, private firefighters are more likely to contract with insurance companies like USAA to offer mitigation services to custo…

Another suggestion for a non-clickbaity title: Insurance Companies do Preventative Maintenance on High-Value Assets But yes, this feels like ... class-baiting or something. This headline is everywhere, made to rile up folk for.... what?

For page views & engagement. The same reason YouTube has been promoting anti-vacination, flat earth, and extremism videos to passive users.
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