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1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

nytimes.com

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Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#131

Post by copperx »

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

Sure, trucks delivering packages are more efficient than people getting stuff from stores, but the former hasn't replaced the latter. People are still doing both.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#133

Post by atomwaffel »

kevindong wrote: post #9

> “What percent of your deliveries are truly urgent — 5 percent or 2 percent?” said Mr. Holguín-Veras, the Rensselaer professor. “We as customers are driving the process and to some extent creating these complications.” As a NYC resident, it's not really a matter of urgency. Identical products are generally much cheaper online (and generally with free shipping). And it's much more convenient since the products get sh…

> A lot of the time, it's actually difficult to find certain goods in stores here (or to know which store to go to).

Exactly this. I want to support small local businesses and I’m happy to pay a slight premium for that (as well as being able to look at/touch the physical object that I can then immediately take home with me), but I really can’t be bothered to spend an hour or two trying to track it down. I wish brick-and-mortar shops would get together and build a platform where I can search their inventories and find the places close to me that carry the item that I already know I want. Bonus points if I can compare prices too, but I can see why they might not want that.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#134

Post by Rapzid »

evrydayhustling wrote: post #121
partisan wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your solution is effectively corporate welfare. The free market should determine whether customers will order packages or not. Also, you are suggesting that the government should provide an easier means for businesses to serve their customers in a way that gives them an advantage over the local businesses that pay local taxes on purchases. The real solution is to make delivery companies pay for the congestion they ca…

100% this. The article is alarmist, but there are no simple solutions here. Why should NYC devote public space to guarantee access for a business model that primarily extracts wealth from the city? Maybe Amazon should lease parking spaces to stage its deliveries, at appropriate rates. It could even install equipment (e.g. mobile pallette depos) that made the delivery process more efficient.

> extracts wealth from the city

Not "provides value"?

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#135

Post by noobermin »

copperx wrote: post #131
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

Sure, trucks delivering packages are more efficient than people getting stuff from stores, but the former hasn't replaced the latter. People are still doing both.

You're not wrong there is some induced demand here too. Still, the best response is their suggestion, areas meant for item drop off.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#136

Post by Rapzid »

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

I thought we were supposed to be designing cities for people and not vehicles. Isn't the answer for everyone to bike with their bike trailer to a central warehouse and collect their own packages?

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#137

Post by baxtr »

Rapzid wrote: post #136
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

I thought we were supposed to be designing cities for people and not vehicles. Isn't the answer for everyone to bike with their bike trailer to a central warehouse and collect their own packages?

I’m a heavy bike supporter, but this suggestion seems to make the lives of bikers and other people better, too.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#138

Post by imtringued »

Spooky23 wrote: post #81
Ididntdothis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is that only people or companies with deep pockets can violate the law that way. If you don’t have money for lawyers you have to pay the tickets. That’s how end up with a two class society where some people are above the law.

Oh no, there are plenty of loopholes. It’s actually easier for a shady operator to operate than a legit one, deep pockets or not! Parking tickets are tagged to a car, not the owner. So when you don’t pay in NY, your registration is suspended. Guess what? Bad operators don’t register in NY! (Rental/Lease fleets are registered in Arizona and Indiana, who are “business friendly” for this reason.) Legit companies get a t…

Some truck companies make their employees pay for the truck lease. If workers can't finish enough deliveries then not only do they not get paid, they actually make a net loss. This means there is no lower bound for wages, if you exploit your workers diligently then you can get them to pay you for the privilege of working for you because they believe they will eventually receive ownership of the truck when the lease ends but they usually get fired before that happens.

This has implications for the automation debate. Robots require electricity and need to be manufactured in the first place. This means you can't actually "exploit" robots the same way you can exploit workers who receive government support or support from relatives.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#139

Post by fredophile »

acdha wrote: post #129
crazygringo wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I read and observe, trucks are already basically maximally loaded to what can be delivered in a shift -- they adjust the number of trucks and their routes to fit whatever the load of packages is. The software is really good at this. In other words, they don't send out a truck out half-full when they could wait until tomorrow to send a full truck, which seems to be what you're suggesting. They just have a tr…

That means more vehicle-miles where it’s taking up space and likely drivers who are less familiar as well. My point was just that aggressive deadlines preclude options: if you live on 3rd St and I live on 4th, one truck can deliver both of our packages with only minimal increased distance but that depends on enough people ordering within the same delivery window. Otherwise you get what I see a lot, which is the same…

I doubt the last mile efficiency is a big factor here. I suspect that the real optimization is in the longer parts of the route. If you're shipping something a thousand miles to get to a customer it makes sense to have a few more trucks driving around a city if it means you have less planes, long haul trucks, etc.

When I order something off Amazon and choose the longer shipping times I don't usually see it getting shipped from wherever it is to a warehouse near me and held for a couple days before delivery. Instead I usually see nothing being done until near the deadline when it ships from the warehouse. Occasionally I'll see it ship from the warehouse a few days early.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#140

Post by justinator »

Rapzid wrote: post #136
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

I thought we were supposed to be designing cities for people and not vehicles. Isn't the answer for everyone to bike with their bike trailer to a central warehouse and collect their own packages?

Delivery people could ride their (electric) bikes that last oh, one mile from a central warehouse, to the drop off point.
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