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1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

nytimes.com

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Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#121

Post by evrydayhustling »

partisan wrote: post #74
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

Your solution is effectively corporate welfare. The free market should determine whether customers will order packages or not. Also, you are suggesting that the government should provide an easier means for businesses to serve their customers in a way that gives them an advantage over the local businesses that pay local taxes on purchases. The real solution is to make delivery companies pay for the congestion they ca…

100% this. The article is alarmist, but there are no simple solutions here. Why should NYC devote public space to guarantee access for a business model that primarily extracts wealth from the city? Maybe Amazon should lease parking spaces to stage its deliveries, at appropriate rates. It could even install equipment (e.g. mobile pallette depos) that made the delivery process more efficient.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#122

Post by Tempest1981 »

nradov wrote: post #73
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

Less urgent deliveries could presumably be batched together, resulting in fewer trucks on the road.

And Amazon is also promoting the concept of a "Delivery Day", presumably to encourage batching deliveries.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#123

Post by CydeWeys »

majewsky wrote: post #107
kweks wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On paper, it's a perfect system. In reality, failing businesses who want the extra income sign up to be package pickup spots, and then provide deplorable service. Some don't respect the opening hours that were published. Some literally climb over mountains of packages. Some have no organisation. Delivery companies realised that they no longer have to attempt deliveries so automatically dump their packages in the pick…

The better system is what DHL is doing with their Packstationen in Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packstation Basically it's like a vending machine for packages. You address your parcel to one of these and the package deliverer will deposit them into a locker there. I then get a code by e-mail which I can use to open the locker whenever I get around to the Packstation. It's really nice for people who work dur…

I've seen those in various places in the US too.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#124

Post by frenchman_in_ny »

alexhutcheson wrote: post #69
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

> Which, logistically, would be relatively trivial to implement -- just painted lines and signs. Plus consistent enforcement, preferably automated enforcement. Enforcement of existing bus and bike lanes is a bad joke.

They would also need to do away with the Commercial Abatement Program -- except that would drive up the cost of deliveries as well.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#125

Post by crazygringo »

acdha wrote: post #101
Aperocky wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most misleading quote of the article: "“What percent of your deliveries are truly urgent — 5 percent or 2 percent?” said Mr. Holguín-Veras, the Rensselaer professor." Good call out, 80% of the outrage machine have no basis in numbers and uses erroneous logic like this.

Is that really erroneous? It seems quite reasonable to me: is every truck 100% loaded or do they have many trucks traveling now with whatever needed to go out to hit the promised deadlines? Extra time gives them the ability to improve utilization of each truck, better route scheduling, and the possibility of off-hours deliveries avoiding peak congestion times.

From what I read and observe, trucks are already basically maximally loaded to what can be delivered in a shift -- they adjust the number of trucks and their routes to fit whatever the load of packages is. The software is really good at this.

In other words, they don't send out a truck out half-full when they could wait until tomorrow to send a full truck, which seems to be what you're suggesting. They just have a truck cover twice the area so it's full.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#126

Post by Tempest1981 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #27
skizm wrote: post #18

> They racked up more than 471,000 parking violations last year... I knew someone who owned a trucking company. They had a lawyer on retainer and every month or so they would gather all the parking tickets, go to a judge (or city official) and cut a deal to pay a fraction of the actual owed amount for all the tickets. This is because, if they did not comply, each ticket would be fought tooth and nail, and the city wo…

This is common in NYC. The biggest violators should be paying the most, but instead, they pay the least per violation because they bargain down the fines. Here's a pretty typical fine record for a truck that was illegally parked in the bike lane during my commute this week: https://twitter.com/CydeWeys/status/1188467550822293512 (expand all replies) And note how they're getting a reduction in fines: https://twitter.c…

In this example, they paid about 72% of the full fine -- more than I expected. ($59.5k paid, $22.7k reduced)

I was expecting "a fraction" to be 10% or 20%.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#127

Post by Tempest1981 »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #67
Razengan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow, a legal DOS.

People could use it too if they'd just fight every traffic ticket.

There are/were some startups in this space: DoNotPay, WinIt, Off the Record, TurboAppeal. Not sure how they're doing.

https://www.vox.com/2018/4/5/17119956/parking-ticket-propert...

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#128

Post by twblalock »

partisan wrote: post #74
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

Your solution is effectively corporate welfare. The free market should determine whether customers will order packages or not. Also, you are suggesting that the government should provide an easier means for businesses to serve their customers in a way that gives them an advantage over the local businesses that pay local taxes on purchases. The real solution is to make delivery companies pay for the congestion they ca…

> Your solution is effectively corporate welfare. The free market should determine whether customers will order packages or not.

A government fair use or congestion tax on delivery vehicles, which you are proposing, isn't a free market solution.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#129

Post by acdha »

crazygringo wrote: post #125
acdha wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really erroneous? It seems quite reasonable to me: is every truck 100% loaded or do they have many trucks traveling now with whatever needed to go out to hit the promised deadlines? Extra time gives them the ability to improve utilization of each truck, better route scheduling, and the possibility of off-hours deliveries avoiding peak congestion times.

From what I read and observe, trucks are already basically maximally loaded to what can be delivered in a shift -- they adjust the number of trucks and their routes to fit whatever the load of packages is. The software is really good at this. In other words, they don't send out a truck out half-full when they could wait until tomorrow to send a full truck, which seems to be what you're suggesting. They just have a tr…

That means more vehicle-miles where it’s taking up space and likely drivers who are less familiar as well.

My point was just that aggressive deadlines preclude options: if you live on 3rd St and I live on 4th, one truck can deliver both of our packages with only minimal increased distance but that depends on enough people ordering within the same delivery window. Otherwise you get what I see a lot, which is the same company showing up at the same houses every day of the week even if most people could have waited to improve efficiency.

I suspect the long-term strategy might be to brand it as a pollution savings bonus, transforming a longer wait from something almost everyone sees as a negative into something which many people will feel good about.

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