Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

banfacialrecognition.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 160 posts

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#131

Post by riversflow »

logicchains wrote: post #119
harshreality wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's not "perfectly fine", but having some semblance of border control is the best system we have in the imperfect international environment we're in. Opening borders is not fixing the system morally, it's admitting modern civilization is a total joke (which it may be, the first world being partly the product of centuries of arguably immoral empires) and deciding to burn everything down. You can't do away w…

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" America was built on immigration from undesirables (an Irish or Italian Catholic ~100 years ago was treated as suspiciously as a Muslim is now), and it seemed to turn out okay. The key difference back then was the…

What does that quote have to do with anything? Try quoting an actually important document not a piece of art in New York City.

>the key difference back then was minimal welfare

And an expectation of assimilation. Regardless immigration in the absence of a welfare state is a completely different beast than immigration into a welfare state.

>Do you think current legal refugees would agree.

Current refugees benefit from unequal access to our labor market. If you eliminated that advantage by letting anyone in, not just risk takers, they almost certainly wouldn’t find it so attractive. How is a race to the bottom a good thing?

>outsourcing

Yes Americans get poorer, and the world gets tons more plastic in its oceans every minute. So we all get poorer too. In my estimation it’s far more important that 1st world countries make a stand for the health of the earth. Globalism is completely incompatible environmentalism best I can tell.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#132

Post by riversflow »

logicchains wrote: post #121
i_am_nomad wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. If he also decides not to rent to black people, certainly, that’s his business, and I have no right to tell him who to rent to. Correct?

If you're asking me personally, then yes it's none of your business what he's doing with his property. If he's not renting to black people, that means more tenants for people who aren't racist to rent to. But that aside, housing discrimination laws are based on the moral principle that people should not be treated worse based on their skin colour. Upon what moral principle is the notion that people should be treated…

Treat your neighbor like your brother? Nationalism and before that tribalism are as old as our species.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#133

Post by angry_octet »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #51
angry_octet wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many places you can be arrested and/or deported for saying the wrong thing, being seen at the wrong place. Basically you are arguing that cultural organizations should support the police state.

As someone that believes in substantially increasing legal avenues for people to reside in the US, I do not agree that we should constrain law enforcement. We should fix the damn laws, not make a conflicting hodgepodge of regulations meant to mitigate ones we don't like. Putting police and law enforcement in the middle of a political debate is a recipe for disaster.

Given that legal immigration (and from PR to citizenship) is being increasingly choked off by unilateral executive action, and many norm busting actions are undertaken by ICE, can you understand why people feel that counteracting efforts must be taken?

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#134

Post by [deleted] »

user9572 wrote: post #126
glenda wrote: post #105

Festivals should just start inviting bounty hunters instead of using facial recognition. Or maybe they could just put shock collars on every attendee in case they begin to act in an unacceptable manner. In fact, once it's proven to work at festivals we can extend this to schools!

It will probably be proven to work in schools first as most parents don't think children should have privacy anyway

[deleted]

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#135

Post by jmpman »

whatawaste wrote: post #128
jmpman wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would I find such statistics? I don’t doubt they exist. My figure is a direct observation having worked landscaping and construction jobs in my town along side people who are illegal and open about it. Then, interacting with the second and third generation friends in school, they weren’t listening to the Spanish radio stations.

So you are just pulling numbers out of thin air. You don’t know the total population of Latinos or the population of people who crossed a border without going though a port of entry or over stayed their visas.

I’m using direct observation and interaction with people in my city. Bayesian inference based upon a sizable sample size across many years? If you have a source of immigration status of Spanish radio listeners by US metropolitan area, it would be an interesting number. Someone has those numbers using more quantifiable methods than my sampling technique.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#136

Post by otterley »

jmpman wrote: post #125
otterley wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your figure is not even an observation; it is a guess. There are paid statisticians doing this job whose data you can cite that would make your argument more compelling.

Where would I find such statistics? I don’t doubt they exist. My figure is a direct observation having worked landscaping and construction jobs in my town along side people who are illegal and open about it. Then, interacting with the second and third generation friends in school, they weren’t listening to the Spanish radio stations.

DHS maintains official statistics of various metrics, which can be found on their website. Here's an example set: https://www.dhs.gov/publication/entryexit-overstay-report

CBP also maintains statistics: https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

In the private sector, Pew Research (a well regarded, nonpartisan institution) generates statistics using loads of studies. See, e.g., https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/12/us-unauthor...

These are all readily found using some basic Google searches.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#137

Post by golergka »

logicchains wrote: post #120
golergka wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it should. But the landlord's private property is still a part of the country citizen's collective property.

Humans (and presumably human rights, if assuming they're fundamental) existed before countries. So how does a concept that came later (a country) suddenly trump something that's fundamental? What is the moral mechanism by which a group of people declare a certain area a country and suddenly gain property rights over everything within that area?

Human rights, just as countries, are a human invention. These inventions are extremely useful, because they allow some rules for conflict resolution — without them, it's just rule of power and violence.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#138

Post by mattlondon »

otterley wrote: post #95
mattlondon wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the computer might say you are someone else. Do not underestimate the power of "computer said so"

We’ve had judicial procedures to challenge the results of technological processes for nearly a century (radar guns for speeding violations, for example). It’s not a foregone conclusion that the computer is always right.

That won't stop you getting hauled off and treated like shit and generally put through the mincer until they realise that the facial "recognition" was incorrect and you are not actually on the most wanted terrorist list they let you out of the holding cell...

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#139

Post by otterley »

mattlondon wrote: post #138
otterley wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve had judicial procedures to challenge the results of technological processes for nearly a century (radar guns for speeding violations, for example). It’s not a foregone conclusion that the computer is always right.

That won't stop you getting hauled off and treated like shit and generally put through the mincer until they realise that the facial " recognition " was incorrect and you are not actually on the most wanted terrorist list they let you out of the holding cell...

Perhaps not, but the same thing can happen if a mistaken person identifies you. In fact, computers are already more reliable than people at identifying individuals. Mistaken identities are tremendous problems with the reliability of criminal convictions. You can dissect an algorithm but not a person’s mind.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#140

Post by jmpman »

otterley wrote: post #136
jmpman wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would I find such statistics? I don’t doubt they exist. My figure is a direct observation having worked landscaping and construction jobs in my town along side people who are illegal and open about it. Then, interacting with the second and third generation friends in school, they weren’t listening to the Spanish radio stations.

DHS maintains official statistics of various metrics, which can be found on their website. Here's an example set: https://www.dhs.gov/publication/entryexit-overstay-report CBP also maintains statistics: https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration In the private sector, Pew Research (a well regarded, nonpartisan institution) generates statistics using loads of studies. See, e.g., https://www.pewresearch.org…

Ok, someone could take the pew research numbers on illegal immigration by metropolitan region, and then correlate that to Spanish radio listenership in those metros based on the Nielsen tlr data. As much fun as that is, and as much as I appreciate the HN readers demand such validation, I’ll let someone else run those numbers.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/03/11/us-metro-ar...

https://tlr.nielsen.com

Post reply on HN