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1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

nytimes.com

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Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#91

Post by oefrha »

CydeWeys wrote: post #54
Spooky23 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are they supposed to do? There’s a difference between the letter of the law and reality. You need deliveries and couriers to make a city work, and NYC is no different.

Advocate for dedicated commercial loading zones. They're not even doing that bare minimum. But it's crucial to point out this simple fact, and I don't think you've quite internalized it yet: Parking illegally in safety infrastructure KILLS PEOPLE . Like, multiple people are dead every year in NYC solely because a vehicle was parked illegally. So regardless of anything else, they should not be doing that. If deliverie…

> Parking illegally in safety infrastructure KILLS PEOPLE.

Parking illegally in safe infrastructure has the potential to kill people. But increase in parking violations doesn’t say anything about parking illegally in safety infrastructure. I’ve had my fair share of parking tickets throughout my life but those were things like parking somewhere where I didn’t have a permit (or dumber, I had a permit but the permit was partially blocked from sight) or parked somewhere for too long, and those weren’t safety related.

So, yeah, “they should not be doing that”, but the article doesn’t say “they’re doing that”. Do you have evidence that delivery trucks actually block say fire hydrants on a regular basis?

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#92

Post by oogali »

apostacy wrote: post #25
kweks wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On paper, it's a perfect system. In reality, failing businesses who want the extra income sign up to be package pickup spots, and then provide deplorable service. Some don't respect the opening hours that were published. Some literally climb over mountains of packages. Some have no organisation. Delivery companies realised that they no longer have to attempt deliveries so automatically dump their packages in the pick…

UPS already tried doing this a few years ago in Brooklyn,[1] but not Manhattan apparently. I was subjected to this a few years ago. Instead of being greeted at the end of the day with my shiny new $300 phone, they left it in a pile on the filthy floor of a local bodega three blocks away. Then, after finding it, I have to wait in line and have my ID scanned and sign for it. And I paid for overnight shipping but if I d…

Are you talking about UPS Access Points?

If so, that is definitely available in Manhattan as I’ve had packages routed to them willingly (I requested it) and unwillingly (driver was too busy to complete deliveries that day).

It started out with the access points being fairly ubiquitous and available at local bakeries, coffee shops, etc. But in recent years, it’s been scaled back to the local UPS Store locations.

But it’s definitely still a thing available in Manhattan, and I’d wager all the boroughs.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#93

Post by bradleyjg »

partisan wrote: post #74
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

Your solution is effectively corporate welfare. The free market should determine whether customers will order packages or not. Also, you are suggesting that the government should provide an easier means for businesses to serve their customers in a way that gives them an advantage over the local businesses that pay local taxes on purchases. The real solution is to make delivery companies pay for the congestion they ca…

> The free market should determine whether customers will order packages or not.

Right. Use of the street should be auctioned rather than given away for free. My guess is delivery companies can and would outbid people that just want to store empty vehicles, which is what we are subsidizing now.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#94

Post by cperciva »

kweks wrote: post #4
carrozo wrote: post #2

In Paris, freight trucks enter the city at night and deliver packages to smaller warehouses near homes. In the morning, bikes and electric vans haul them to people’s doorsteps. Some neighborhood convenience stores and flower shops double as pickup spots for packages. European model seems like a good one to copy here.

On paper, it's a perfect system. In reality, failing businesses who want the extra income sign up to be package pickup spots, and then provide deplorable service. Some don't respect the opening hours that were published. Some literally climb over mountains of packages. Some have no organisation. Delivery companies realised that they no longer have to attempt deliveries so automatically dump their packages in the pick…

Delivery companies realised that they no longer have to attempt deliveries so automatically dump their packages in the pickup points.

Indeed. There's a UPS pickup point a block away from me, and when Amazon decides to deliver packages via UPS, the driver 100% consistently leaves a "missed delivery" notice without even trying to deliver the package.

When I complain, UPS is always apologetic, but nothing ever changes...

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#95

Post by Udik »

A few days ago, in the context of first drone delivery by Google, I asked why don't we build infrastructure (pipes + automatic pods going through them) to deliver grocery-sized packages. Sounds like a literal pipe dream, but I'm not convinced the economics wouldn't work. Deliveries could take a matter of minutes and the network could be expanded at will, starting with a few neighborhood delivery spots. At a price of one or two dollars a package, for a million daily deliveries, it could make sense.

Any thoughts?

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#97

Post by bogomipz »

CydeWeys wrote: post #32
booleandilemma wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m all for anything that will get bikers off the sidewalks.

You don't see too much of that in Manhattan, because the sidewalks are so crowded with pedestrians that they're terrible places to be on a bike. But yes, in general, creating safe, protected bike lanes is an excellent way to increase safety for everyone. I've heard people complain about cyclists on the sidewalks in locations that lacked bike lanes and had speeding motor traffic, and the cyclist clearly felt unsafe ri…

>"You don't see too much of that in Manhattan,"

Uhm ... except for almost every single food delivery person. This has been an issue for a long time now as well:

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/city-increase-fines-del...

And more recently with electric bikes as well:

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/04/19/confronted-with-facts...

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#98

Post by smelendez »

apostacy wrote: post #25
kweks wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On paper, it's a perfect system. In reality, failing businesses who want the extra income sign up to be package pickup spots, and then provide deplorable service. Some don't respect the opening hours that were published. Some literally climb over mountains of packages. Some have no organisation. Delivery companies realised that they no longer have to attempt deliveries so automatically dump their packages in the pick…

UPS already tried doing this a few years ago in Brooklyn,[1] but not Manhattan apparently. I was subjected to this a few years ago. Instead of being greeted at the end of the day with my shiny new $300 phone, they left it in a pile on the filthy floor of a local bodega three blocks away. Then, after finding it, I have to wait in line and have my ID scanned and sign for it. And I paid for overnight shipping but if I d…

Taking the package and claiming a refund is obviously fraud but it sounds like the business was also not properly safeguarding the packages.

Why not keep them under the counter?

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#99

Post by gumby »

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

There's already even a mechanism for what you want -- commercial-only zones (yellow curb).

One downside is they are typically all day long. A reasonable extension would be to expand them with more restrictive zones: deliveries only between 10-12 and 2-4 for most neighborhoods (there's no perfect time but a fixed window would help people plan). For neighborhoods with doormen: 4-6 AM, 7-10 pm (with a doorman, 4AM isn't a gift to package thieves). TCP cars in residential yellow curb: only 6-10 AM. etc.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#100

Post by bogomipz »

It's interesting to see Fresh Direct figure so prominently in this because they're kind of the original two day shipping company in NYC. They've been delivering groceries to online shoppers since the early 2000s. Also their warehouse has always been inside the city in LIC, Queens. The complaints about them and their trucks with loud refrigeration units are just as old. This is from a decade ago:

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/25/nyregion/25fresh.html

It's not like these delivery issues came out of nowhere. There was plenty of time for the DOT, the state and city council to look at data, study these trends and adjust policy accordingly. But like everything else it needs to reach some crisis level before any appreciable action is undertaken.

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