1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets • Hacker News Board

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#71

Post by CydeWeys » Sun, Oct 27, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

Consultant32452 wrote: post #41

Ididntdothis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is that only people or companies with deep pockets can violate the law that way. If you don’t have money for lawyers you have to pay the tickets. That’s how end up with a two class society where some people are above the law.

I don't know what it's like in NY, but in my state you can take a driver safety course and cut your fees down considerably.

If taking such a driver safety course actually meant that people didn't park illegally, then it'd be a huge success, and would be well worth it. But the not parking illegally part itself would be by far the greatest reduction in fines.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#72

Post by Aperocky » Sun, Oct 27, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

> Most misleading quote of the article: "“What percent of your deliveries are truly urgent — 5 percent or 2 percent?” said Mr. Holguín-Veras, the Rensselaer professor."

Good call out, 80% of the outrage machine have no basis in numbers and uses erroneous logic like this.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#73

Post by nradov » Sun, Oct 27, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

Less urgent deliveries could presumably be batched together, resulting in fewer trucks on the road.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#74

Post by partisan » Sun, Oct 27, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

Your solution is effectively corporate welfare. The free market should determine whether customers will order packages or not.

Also, you are suggesting that the government should provide an easier means for businesses to serve their customers in a way that gives them an advantage over the local businesses that pay local taxes on purchases.

The real solution is to make delivery companies pay for the congestion they cause. A fair use tax, for example. Then, using that tax revenue, you can improve traffic. The delivery companies can pass their costs on to the retailers and the retailers can pass the costs on to the customers. The customers can then decide whether they wish to pay more or shop somewhere else.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#75

Post by steelframe » Sun, Oct 27, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #5

A few thoughts as a bike commuter in Manhattan who sees this first hand every day: The congestion tax can't come soon enough (and it should have no carve-outs, certainly not for people who live here). We need to get rid of lots of free on-street parking in the city and replace it with loading zones so that taxis/Ubers and trucks have free spaces on every block to conduct their business without blocking travel lanes o…

> Here's a truck I reported in the bike lane that's closing in on a thousand tickets

Someone else on this thread asked how they are supposed to move in or move out of their apartment without getting a ticket. I responded that they can't; it's just part of the cost of picking up or delivering things in midtown.

This truck with almost 1,000 tickets serves as pretty solid evidence that there's a standing agreement between the local government and the local businesses regarding the cost of doing business in the area. It passively-aggressively appeases the public who would roast any politicians who took away their bike lanes or parking spots while making sure there is still a market for using the public infrastructure. People can rage at the businesses who block lanes while the politicians shrug their shoulders and say, "Hey, don't blame us. We've made it illegal, and we aggressively ticket them for it!"

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#76

Post by nradov » Sun, Oct 27, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

Consultant32452 wrote: post #41

Ididntdothis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is that only people or companies with deep pockets can violate the law that way. If you don’t have money for lawyers you have to pay the tickets. That’s how end up with a two class society where some people are above the law.

I don't know what it's like in NY, but in my state you can take a driver safety course and cut your fees down considerably.

That's for moving violations, not parking tickets.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#77

Post by mattzito » Sun, Oct 27, 2019, 4:39 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

This already exists in NYC, it’s the space in front of fire hydrants. It doesn’t help.

The problem is that the trucks are simply offload points, and occupy large sections of street as 5-15 people process the packages, stack delivery carts, and proceed on their way. Then the deliveries are completed on foot. It’s a multi-hour process, blocks the sidewalk, and is pretty disruptive.

Edit: you can see this process in action in the pic at the top of the article.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#78

Post by steelframe » Sun, Oct 27, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #70

RhysU wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you are trading time for safety, you are uncomfortable with your choice, and you now wish to make your tradeoffs someone else's problem.

It's the city's responsibility (and in its best interests) to create a safe, effective transportation network that moves as many people as efficiently as possible. The better the transportation network of a city runs, the better that city will be, as less time is wasted in transit and jobs are performed more efficiently, and more taxes are paid and more businesses and people move in. It is simply physically impossibl…

> is putting in dozens of miles of new protected bike lanes each year as part of the long-running Vision Zero initiative.

"Protected bike lanes"... aren't. Because they share intersections with motor vehicles, left-hooks and right-hooks still happen, which together constitute the majority of bicyclist-motorist collisions.

A transition to a better transportation system can't happen a few bike lanes at a time. Society will need to stop thinking in terms of millions of dollars and start thinking about billions of dollars.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#79

Post by mullingitover » Sun, Oct 27, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

skizm wrote: post #18

> They racked up more than 471,000 parking violations last year... I knew someone who owned a trucking company. They had a lawyer on retainer and every month or so they would gather all the parking tickets, go to a judge (or city official) and cut a deal to pay a fraction of the actual owed amount for all the tickets. This is because, if they did not comply, each ticket would be fought tooth and nail, and the city wo…

This is a great argument for making the fines increase for repeat offenders. Nothing for, say, the first 5 fines, but after that increase them by 30% for each additional fine.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#80

Post by valley-green » Sun, Oct 27, 2019, 4:46 PM UTC

mattzito wrote: post #77

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

This already exists in NYC, it’s the space in front of fire hydrants. It doesn’t help. The problem is that the trucks are simply offload points, and occupy large sections of street as 5-15 people process the packages, stack delivery carts, and proceed on their way. Then the deliveries are completed on foot. It’s a multi-hour process, blocks the sidewalk, and is pretty disruptive. Edit: you can see this process in act…

What if they sorted the packages at the sorting center instead of the sidewalk? Amazon saving money by using the sidewalk as a distribution center. Fucking amazing thank you Jeff Bezos you weren’t rich enough.