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1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

nytimes.com

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Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#51

Post by vageli »

CydeWeys wrote: post #5

A few thoughts as a bike commuter in Manhattan who sees this first hand every day: The congestion tax can't come soon enough (and it should have no carve-outs, certainly not for people who live here). We need to get rid of lots of free on-street parking in the city and replace it with loading zones so that taxis/Ubers and trucks have free spaces on every block to conduct their business without blocking travel lanes o…

> And the second solution is make the penalties on trucks meaningful. Have the fine amounts escalate with every violation within a certain period, with no cap (so that a ticket could eventually cost tens of thousands of dollars for a particular scofflaw truck, rather than the current ignorable amount of around a hundred). And tow/confiscate trucks that have enough tickets.

Part of the reason these companies can get away with settling is due to the large volume of tickets they receive. In the case of a fine escalating for each ticket, I would imagine that the company would then fight each ticket in court. This could easily overwhelm the courts. This seems like a fundamentally unfixable vulnerability that has been exploited by other actors (like Scientology).

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#52

Post by nine_k »

apostacy wrote: post #33
seieste wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, the city could have the police put a boot on the truck tires.

It seems boots are reserved for poor people. I've only ever seen boots on run down cars in working class neighborhoods like Crown Heights or Bed Stuy.

I've seen a boot on a Lamborghini somewhere in my neighborhood. It was one of the very few cases I ever saw a Lamborghini around; most cars in my neighborhood are way less expensive.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#53

Post by in3d »

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

Absolutely. And sometimes it’s not just street parking - it’s free street parking.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#54

Post by CydeWeys »

Spooky23 wrote: post #36
CydeWeys wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is common in NYC. The biggest violators should be paying the most, but instead, they pay the least per violation because they bargain down the fines. Here's a pretty typical fine record for a truck that was illegally parked in the bike lane during my commute this week: https://twitter.com/CydeWeys/status/1188467550822293512 (expand all replies) And note how they're getting a reduction in fines: https://twitter.c…

What are they supposed to do? There’s a difference between the letter of the law and reality. You need deliveries and couriers to make a city work, and NYC is no different.

Advocate for dedicated commercial loading zones. They're not even doing that bare minimum.

But it's crucial to point out this simple fact, and I don't think you've quite internalized it yet: Parking illegally in safety infrastructure KILLS PEOPLE. Like, multiple people are dead every year in NYC solely because a vehicle was parked illegally. So regardless of anything else, they should not be doing that. If deliveries take longer, so be it. It's not acceptable to take other people's lives like this just to deliver some packages more quickly. The problem is as bad as it is because drivers break the law and aren't sufficiently punished for it; if they actually had to be compliant with the law, then we'd see how badly things are creaking and be forced to change things, by adding more safe loading zones.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#55

Post by CydeWeys »

jdietrich wrote: post #34
frereubu wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdatum - a local failing newsagent (UK) is the UPS pickup point and I've not had a single problem with them. In fact I prefer picking up from them because UPS delivery times are verging on fictitious. I think it may keep the newsagent afloat and that's absolutely fine by me if I can pickup my packages from them, because they're not going to exist for much longer just selling the curious mixture of indigestion tabl…

>I've not had a single problem with them Seconded. I get a lot of packages delivered to my local convenience store, even if I'm expecting to be in on the delivery day. I find it vastly preferable to collect the parcel at my own convenience rather than wait for the knock-and-run from an impatient delivery driver.

I get a lot of smaller packages delivered to work for a similar reason. I'd rather get a notification and go pick it up than have it randomly dropped either in front of my door or in the apartment's common lobby, and wonder if it's going to grow feet and walk off before I get home.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#56

Post by CydeWeys »

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

> Which, logistically, would be relatively trivial to implement -- just painted lines and signs. Street parking needs to be reprioritized for the needs of 2019, not 1950.

It's funny you picked that year, because the summer of 1950 is when over night on-street parking came into existence at all. Before that, all street parking was temporary. https://www.nytimes.com/1996/03/17/realestate/streetscapes-c...

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#57

Post by CydeWeys »

nemo44x wrote: post #50
alexhutcheson wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agreed. This is a trivially solvable problem, and the only thing standing in the way is the fact that politicians are terrified to upset the small minority of people who currently benefit from free on-street parking. We're currently giving away huge amounts of the most valuable real estate in the country, and we need to reclaim it for publicly beneficial uses including bus lanes, bike lanes, and designated loadi…

It’s not being given away. They pay taxes to live in the city and at 3% it’s not cheap. I live in the city and think having a car is ridiculous in many parts but let’s remember that the citizens are paying a lot of tax. Forcing everyone to use a garage is elitist as they run over $600/month.

Those of us who live in the city and don't own cars are paying those exact same taxes, except we don't get free parking in return for them.

It's absolutely being given away. You pay those taxes regardless of whether or not you have a car. And it's not unreasonable to expect that if people want to have a car they should pay the actual cost of doing so. Why should the rest of us subsidize those people?

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#58

Post by CydeWeys »

AJ007 wrote: post #21
CydeWeys wrote: post #5

A few thoughts as a bike commuter in Manhattan who sees this first hand every day: The congestion tax can't come soon enough (and it should have no carve-outs, certainly not for people who live here). We need to get rid of lots of free on-street parking in the city and replace it with loading zones so that taxis/Ubers and trucks have free spaces on every block to conduct their business without blocking travel lanes o…

I suspect in the next recession, municipalities are going to grasp for revenue from fines and fees. Traffic & parking violation escalation will come easy at that point. I’m particularly alarmed by the rental trucks being used in Manhattan for Amazon deliveries. Who is driving them, how much experience do they have, and do they care? The first thing I think about when I see one is the Oklahoma City bombing.

I doubt that they even have CDLs, so they've done an end-run around the basic legal process required to ensure safety here. (Though, the private garbage truck drivers do have CDLs and they drive like lunatics and kill people regularly, so just having a CDL is no guarantee, but it's a start).

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#59

Post by kweks »

frereubu wrote: post #13
kweks wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On paper, it's a perfect system. In reality, failing businesses who want the extra income sign up to be package pickup spots, and then provide deplorable service. Some don't respect the opening hours that were published. Some literally climb over mountains of packages. Some have no organisation. Delivery companies realised that they no longer have to attempt deliveries so automatically dump their packages in the pick…

Anecdatum - a local failing newsagent (UK) is the UPS pickup point and I've not had a single problem with them. In fact I prefer picking up from them because UPS delivery times are verging on fictitious. I think it may keep the newsagent afloat and that's absolutely fine by me if I can pickup my packages from them, because they're not going to exist for much longer just selling the curious mixture of indigestion tabl…

It may be a cultural difference. Over the years, I'd had parcels delivered to about 10 different depots, and the experience was always the same.

The google reviews for the places are all the same: 1 star, never open / packages stolen / packages broken.

It's great to hear it works better in some places; on paper it's a great solution.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#60

Post by CydeWeys »

hos234 wrote: post #10

So basically the Russians can order staples to a few hundred carefully chosen locations and brings Cities to a standstill. No ICBMs necessary. Good to know.

Not really. There's only so many trucks, and they're already mostly in use anyway. You wouldn't see much more trucks on the road in this case, just them working longer hours and with larger crews per truck. It happens every holiday season.
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