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Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

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Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#51

Post by anonuser123456 »

angry_octet wrote: post #41
sergiotapia wrote: post #29

>which puts music fans at risk of being unjustly detained, harassed, judged, or even deported. Lost me at deported. Why is this hypothetical music fan in this country illegally? And why is it so important to allow him to stay?

In many places you can be arrested and/or deported for saying the wrong thing, being seen at the wrong place. Basically you are arguing that cultural organizations should support the police state.

As someone that believes in substantially increasing legal avenues for people to reside in the US, I do not agree that we should constrain law enforcement.

We should fix the damn laws, not make a conflicting hodgepodge of regulations meant to mitigate ones we don't like. Putting police and law enforcement in the middle of a political debate is a recipe for disaster.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#52

Post by matz1 »

martin_a wrote: post #49
matz1 wrote: post #37

Trying to ban FR seems to be a solving the privacy problem in the wrong way. Instead of banning FR, what should be fixed is the misidentification problem or the issue that come out when the FR become public.

This problem needs to be tackled from several angles, I think. Omnipresent cameras, linked to FR systems, are just as big a problem as misidentification.

Yes i agree but instead of trying to stop/hide the information, we should instead embrace it and fix whatever issue that come out from that.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#53

Post by i_am_nomad »

logicchains wrote: post #39
anilakar wrote: post #4

Why are most of the tweets mentioning deportation? Surveillance aside, since when has it been a human right to attend a festival in a country you are not allowed to reside in?

Since when was it a human right to tell other people where they're allowed to live?

Good question. I’ll be moving in to your house this evening, thanks.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#54

Post by hk__2 »

cco wrote: post #33
gdhbcc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vatican for example

Are they in the Schengen? A quick Google says no, but maybe it is somehow inherited from Italy?

They aren’t in the Schengen area but they have open borders with Italy, which itself is in the Schengen area. Schengen or not, it doesn’t really make sense to talk about immigration in the Vatican since there’s no nationality and the Vatican can’t even issue visas.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#55

Post by Nextgrid »

himlion wrote: post #6
duckqlz wrote: post #2

Ironic how they want your name and address and phone number for a petition to protect your privacy.

No need for snark, those are completely different situations.

Or not, considering you’d still be permanently recorded in their marketing/spam database, equivalent to the “matching faces to ticket purchase details” they mention on their own website.

In fact, my biggest worry about facial recognition is not even government abuse but the marketing, ads & stalking industry which is way more efficient at stalking people than any government will ever be (see Facebook for an example).

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#56

Post by i_am_nomad »

acollins1331 wrote: post #45
sergiotapia wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about this strawman "many places". We're talking about the US. Again: Why is it important to allow this illegal alien to stay in the country?

Why is it so important for you to kick them out?

I can’t answer for sergiotapia, but I will say that you cannot have unconstrained immigration and high-quality public goods at the same time. Also, rapid unconstrained immigration causes equally rapid changes in culture, and it’s not unreasonable at all for existing citizens to object to that.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#57

Post by cc81 »

derriz wrote: post #46
angry_octet wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are in Europe, how can you not be aware of undocumented refugees from North Africa and Syria? What you are saying is completely delusional.

Where in Europe are you talking about? The majority of immigrants in any EU country come from other EU countries. Of the remainder, less than 10% arrived as refugees. The vast majority of refugees (over 90% I’d guess) are documented and those from Syria or North Africa constitute only a fraction of all refugees. The average European is highly highly unlikely to have ever encountered an undocumented refugee from Syria…

There are not as many as for example southern US but there are illegal immigrants. Usually people who smuggle themselves here but fail to get asylum but goes underground and works shitty jobs for very shitty pay. Or keep away to try to seek asylum again after some time.

You also have those that are in limbo as for example there are several countries that are not taking back their citizens if they are forced there. Afghanistan used to be one of those countries for Sweden so even if someone got a no on their asylum application they could still just say no and stay. However now Sweden has a deal with Afghanistan so people who are not leaving willingly are put on chartered planes down there.

Then there are those internally within EU like beggars who are officially not allowed to stay as long as they do but no one is checking of course.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#58

Post by harshreality »

logicchains wrote: post #35
jstanley wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be a human right to exist at a public place/event anywhere on Earth, regardless of which country you were born in.

It's insane that people will go on about how important it is to treat people equally regardless of their race, gender, skin colour or sexuality, but also argue it's perfectly fine and moral to discriminate based on place of birth. Because people clearly have a lot more control over where they're born than they do over their skin color or gender..

Of course it's not "perfectly fine", but having some semblance of border control is the best system we have in the imperfect international environment we're in. Opening borders is not fixing the system morally, it's admitting modern civilization is a total joke (which it may be, the first world being partly the product of centuries of arguably immoral empires) and deciding to burn everything down.

You can't do away with borders in an environment where governments are at each other's throats and there's massive wealth and cultural inequality. At best — at best — the 1st world would rapidly equalize economically and politically with the rest of the world. And what would that accomplish? The refugees (small percentage of 3rd world residents who could/would migrate) come from cultures that are unable to fix their own countries' problems from within, granted often due to initial conditions outside their control. So how would they fix our problems — and we have a lot of them — which are equally out of our control to solve? And after such a grand experiment, the refugees would be hardly any better off than they are now.

Opening borders to absolve our guilty conscience about ill-gotten gains of empires past and present doesn't solve anything. It just makes us feel better. It's like shooting heroin on the titanic.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#59

Post by acollins1331 »

i_am_nomad wrote: post #56
acollins1331 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it so important for you to kick them out?

I can’t answer for sergiotapia, but I will say that you cannot have unconstrained immigration and high-quality public goods at the same time. Also, rapid unconstrained immigration causes equally rapid changes in culture, and it’s not unreasonable at all for existing citizens to object to that.

Okay so you think setting up FR at burning man so we can deport some people that went to burning man does any net good for society? Why? Because our culture is changing too quickly? Shameful.

Do you also think deporting the 11m people here illegally would be good for society? Protip: it would be devastating.

Re: Ban Facial Recognition at Festivals

#60

Post by derriz »

derriz wrote: post #46
angry_octet wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are in Europe, how can you not be aware of undocumented refugees from North Africa and Syria? What you are saying is completely delusional.

Where in Europe are you talking about? The majority of immigrants in any EU country come from other EU countries. Of the remainder, less than 10% arrived as refugees. The vast majority of refugees (over 90% I’d guess) are documented and those from Syria or North Africa constitute only a fraction of all refugees. The average European is highly highly unlikely to have ever encountered an undocumented refugee from Syria…

Don’t understand the downvotes. If anyone has any references to there being a large number of undocumented immigrants in Europe, I’d be glad to be corrected.

Most of Europe is very different to the US in this regard. Without being legal/registered, you’ve no chance of getting the equivalent of an SSN, drivers license, opening a bank account, leasing an apartment or in some cases even buy a mobile phone. Consequently, the number of undocumented immigrants is minuscule.

I get the impression that in the US it mightn’t be unusual for the average citizen to encounter undocumented immigrant gardeners, nannies, etc. - this almost never happens in Europe.

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