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Banksy's Fake Store Is an Attempt to Abuse Trademark Law to Avoid Copyright Law

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Re: Banksy's Fake Store Is an Attempt to Abuse Trademark Law to Avoid Copyright Law

#51

Post by dangus »

The whole situation is interesting at the very least.

The only comment I have is that I have to fault the article for making a lot of assumptions and leaps to conclusions on Banksy’s intentions, it sort of unilaterally declares that Banksy is selling out and cheating the system.

But what they want is far simpler: they don’t want other people claiming they’re Banksy, and they want to remain anonymous.

The article gets upset at Banksy as a corporate sellout as if they opened up a line of art pieces for sale at Walmart or Target. What Banksy did is more akin to opening up a UPS Store mailbox in order to have an address on file.

Re: Banksy's Fake Store Is an Attempt to Abuse Trademark Law to Avoid Copyright Law

#52

Post by Traster »

cookie_monsta wrote: post #16

I can kind of get this. He wants to remain anonymous but he doesn't want to see his work on every shonky piece of merch in every dollar store in town. Both of those seem like reasonable desires. Nobody's disputing that he's the creator after all. It looks to me like copyright law is broken, but I guess parliament won't be rushing to fix it to plug gaps for edge cases involving anonymous street artists. What surprises…

He's a performer in a music group that has sold millions of records and performed live all over the world. If he wanted to be anonymous, I suggest he's chosen the wrong career.

Re: Banksy's Fake Store Is an Attempt to Abuse Trademark Law to Avoid Copyright Law

#53

Post by jtbayly »

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #43
bufferoverflow wrote: post #27

> We legally photograph public graffiti and make it available to you Is that how the copyright works in the UK??? Like I can photograph anybody's art and just sell prints? That doesn't sound right.

No, it isn't. The closest that UK copyright law gets is that there's an exemption for photographs of "sculptures, models for buildings and works of artistic craftsmanship, if permanently situated in a public place or in premises open to the public". (See section 62 at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... .) But Banksy's pictures are just straight "artistic works". There's no need to class t…

What is the difference between works Of artistic craftsmanship and artistic works?

His works are generally permanently situated in a public place. I would think that taking a picture of any random public wall with graffiti on it is legal. But you seem to be saying that there are two kinds of art, and that the kind that is “worse” gets protection, but the better kind didn’t get protection. Very odd.

Re: Banksy's Fake Store Is an Attempt to Abuse Trademark Law to Avoid Copyright Law

#54

Post by Traster »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #27

> We legally photograph public graffiti and make it available to you Is that how the copyright works in the UK??? Like I can photograph anybody's art and just sell prints? That doesn't sound right.

He wants to have his cake and eat it. He can copyright his work to have it protected, but won't because that would mean you know the name of the person who makes it. So instead he abuses the law by claiming a trademark - which he isn't entitled to under the law. So now someone has challenged his trademark and because Banksy isn't actually some anti-establishment rebel, he's using fancy lawyers and public pressure to get his way despite not actually being right as a matter of law.

Re: Banksy's Fake Store Is an Attempt to Abuse Trademark Law to Avoid Copyright Law

#55

Post by jtbayly »

krsdcbl wrote: post #28

Tldr; this article seems highly biased and tries to paint Banksy as an evil corporate mastermind who tries to damage a small home business by ways of shady litigation - while the issue at hand looks more to be that said business tries to make profit off pictures he won't print as merch and prohibiting this is complicated legally without disclosing one's true name. The article plays on sympathy for the "poor little ho…

But which one has a big corporation? The article clearly and seemingly correctly points out that Banksy is a much bigger corporation and that corporation is lying through its teeth about what is happening.

Re: Banksy's Fake Store Is an Attempt to Abuse Trademark Law to Avoid Copyright Law

#56

Post by Traster »

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #43
bufferoverflow wrote: post #27

> We legally photograph public graffiti and make it available to you Is that how the copyright works in the UK??? Like I can photograph anybody's art and just sell prints? That doesn't sound right.

No, it isn't. The closest that UK copyright law gets is that there's an exemption for photographs of "sculptures, models for buildings and works of artistic craftsmanship, if permanently situated in a public place or in premises open to the public". (See section 62 at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... .) But Banksy's pictures are just straight "artistic works". There's no need to class t…

The germane point is that Banksy isn't claiming copyright, he's claiming a trademark. He could stop them doing this if he sued them for copyright infringement but he's choosing not to.

Re: Banksy's Fake Store Is an Attempt to Abuse Trademark Law to Avoid Copyright Law

#57

Post by jtbayly »

gkoberger wrote: post #12

I had two problems. First, I really didn't like the tone of the card company. They're selling someone else's work (whether legal or not), and then were condescending toward the person who made it. They say they're just trying to honor Banksy, but they paint him as an out-of-touch rich asshole. Second, it's hard to know for sure, but I think this analysis misses the bigger point... I feel like opening a small shop tha…

> they paint him as an out-of-touch rich asshole.

That’s because that’s how he has treated them. Lying about them and what they are doing is nasty. That’s what Banksy did.

Re: Banksy's Fake Store Is an Attempt to Abuse Trademark Law to Avoid Copyright Law

#58

Post by tomxor »

dangus wrote: post #51

The whole situation is interesting at the very least. The only comment I have is that I have to fault the article for making a lot of assumptions and leaps to conclusions on Banksy’s intentions, it sort of unilaterally declares that Banksy is selling out and cheating the system. But what they want is far simpler: they don’t want other people claiming they’re Banksy, and they want to remain anonymous. The article gets…

> they don’t want other people claiming they’re Banksy, and they want to remain anonymous.

Sounds like a perfect case for public key cryptography, although it doesn't help with duplicates - but duplicates help his work sell anyway.

Would be interesting to see how it could be applied to something visual that is reproduced in non-pixel perfect ways.

Re: Banksy's Fake Store Is an Attempt to Abuse Trademark Law to Avoid Copyright Law

#59

Post by jtbayly »

dangus wrote: post #51

The whole situation is interesting at the very least. The only comment I have is that I have to fault the article for making a lot of assumptions and leaps to conclusions on Banksy’s intentions, it sort of unilaterally declares that Banksy is selling out and cheating the system. But what they want is far simpler: they don’t want other people claiming they’re Banksy, and they want to remain anonymous. The article gets…

> they don’t want other people claiming they’re Banksy

No. This is obviously not the problem. Nobody at that greeting card company was claiming to be Banksy. The problem is that they are making money off of a Banksy work of art without his permission.

His behavior is quite clearly protecting his financial interests in his own work. That’s actually the only explanation that makes sense. The other option being that he’s opposed to anybody making money off his art, including himself. Nothing he has done in the last year has indicated the latter to be the case.

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