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Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

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Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#271

Post by K0SM0S »

dmckeon wrote: post #229

> And we’re actually going to have […] ‘installathons,’ ” Musk said, which will pit two teams against each other to see who can roof one of two similar-sized/designed roofs faster. Musk reiterated later that there’s “quite a bit of R&D just in the installation process itself.” Not a short seller, but that sounds a lot like: “We don’t yet know how to do this well, but in the meantime we are going to optimize for speed…

Luckily, you fall in the textbook mainstream part of the adoption "S" curve. I think it's expected by any early adopter that you're basically testing beta products, I know technology taught me that in all regards.

I say luckily because it's a good thing that most people do not jump too quick on all bandwago... oh wait. Well, it's great when they don't, not too fast. Society isn't a startup.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#273

Post by hansthehorse »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #236
macspoofing wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This was true 20 years ago and will be laughable 20 years from now. Will the sun start shining at night in 20 years? >Fossil fuel generators do NOT ramp up and down quickly. Natural gas ramps as quickly as it can. But let's assume that's true, that's not a point against me, it's a point against solar because then it means that solar is completely unworkable. >Every one of these supposed drawbacks of solar also apply…

> Natural gas ramps as quickly as it can. But let's assume that's true, that's not a point against me, it's a point against solar because then it means that solar is completely unworkable. You're thinking about this wrong. If you want 100% generation from solar then you need a ton of storage, period. But who says it has to be 100% solar or 0? Take a look at the daily electricity demand curve. Lower at night, higher d…

I live in Southeast Florida and worked for Florida Power and Light for over 20 years. They called the 3pm to 11pm shift the peak shift for a reason.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#274

Post by hansthehorse »

jacquesm wrote: post #197
macspoofing wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If too many people build solar, the utility can't build new infrastructure and charge everyone for it. Right. Because solar does not play well with existing infrastructure but solar needs the grid to be even close to viable. It needs it because it is a diffuse intermittent power source, where the peak power generation does not actually match peak power use. Solar overproduction cannot be saved for later either, mea…

The only fossil fuel generators that ramp up and down quickly are the ones burning natural gas powering turbines. The rest is rather sluggish. And Nuclear is terrible at this too, especially at load shedding, which can cause a plant to be shut down after which it will take up to 72 hours to power back up.

Utilities generally use what is called spinning reserve. That is a plant, or a few plants, that are sitting at idle power with the turbine generator up to speed but may or may not be connected to the grid. The old coal and oil plants were good at this and could quickly meet peak demand. Gas is much better at it though. Nuclear is always base loaded as it's usually the cheapest kilowatt maker in the system. It's never taken me 72 hours to start the nuclear plant I worked at except after an outage where a valve lineup check of the entire plant is performed and mountains of paper work to do.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#275

Post by meerita »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #175
meerita wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why people has to paid more just because they're rich?

Because if you want to live in a harmonious society that provides opportunity for everyone, it’s best to not create a huge wealth/income gap.

You cannot provide opportunities if you charge more to those who has more. You're just transfering money from one rich to another, unequally.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#276

Post by jacquesm »

hansthehorse wrote: post #274
jacquesm wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only fossil fuel generators that ramp up and down quickly are the ones burning natural gas powering turbines. The rest is rather sluggish. And Nuclear is terrible at this too, especially at load shedding, which can cause a plant to be shut down after which it will take up to 72 hours to power back up.

Utilities generally use what is called spinning reserve. That is a plant, or a few plants, that are sitting at idle power with the turbine generator up to speed but may or may not be connected to the grid. The old coal and oil plants were good at this and could quickly meet peak demand. Gas is much better at it though. Nuclear is always base loaded as it's usually the cheapest kilowatt maker in the system. It's never…

Your practical knowledge obviously trumps my second hand one. The 72 hour figure came from a guy I knew that worked on the CL&P nukes in Pickering. We talked about it in the context of the cascading failure that caused the widespread grid outage, he said that 'once the nukes shut down we will be down for at least three days because that's how long it will take to bring them back up'.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#277

Post by meerita »

optimiz3 wrote: post #183
meerita wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why people has to paid more just because they're rich?

Poor people benefit when less energy is generated from fossil fuels.

That doesn't answer my question. Why someone has to paid more just because it has more money in the bank, what makes you morally superior to get better tax cuts just because you have less dollars in it?

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#278

Post by carlivar »

jayd16 wrote: post #268
carlivar wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk rejects Kanban and Toyota Production System. Chaotic pressure is only one type of production speed.

Hmm interesting. Is there an article that goes over Musk's internal production style or why he rejects the ones you've listed?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/19/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-extreme-...

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#280

Post by jtc331 »

oliveshell wrote: post #106
Quequau wrote: post #91

I have a friend in America who has a fairly large PV set up on part of his property. Listening to the all the obstacles he's had to overcome and all the surprising limitations he's saddled with, I can't help but suspect that the power company in his area that he's selling the power to would rather that these sorts of installations simply not exist. Coupling that with the fact that off-peak pricing isn't the norm in a…

Some utility companies in the U.S. are quite solar-hostile. A major Alabama utility charges a monthly “backup fee” of $5 per kW of installed solar, regardless of usage: https://www.npr.org/2019/06/02/728761703/to-some-solar-users...

I’d bet the unsubsidized economics of residential solar for the utility actually make this likely a pretty reasonable number.

I have solar myself, but we have to be honest that residential installs really destroy the economics of traditional power generation. And net metering regulation makes that even more the case, which is why net metering can’t last and/or storage will be required along with residential solar.

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