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Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

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Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#141

Post by johnpowell »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #25

> It also lists $33,950 as the price after an $8,550 federal tax incentive. There is something absolutely astonishing about the fact that in America the way we have go about being eco-friendly is to give huge tax breaks to rich people to buy solar panels and electric vehicles. To think with all that money we could build better infrastructure and denser housing. Really boggles the mind.

You should have seen my last apartment. Single-pane windows that dripped, hot water heater from the early 80's, and pretty much zero insulation.

It does seem like money that could be spent making dwellings more energy efficient.

If you have a spare 40K does 8K really matter? They would probably buy it anyway.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#142

Post by jandrese »

rco8786 wrote: post #26
aphextron wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cheaper than traditional roof plus solar. I find that really hard to believe. A new roof runs between 5-10k, and a 3kw solar system can be had for ~5k + labor. Even if they are including a power wall in that price it's still pretty steep. Edit: It looks like they are actually quoting a 10kw system with 3 power walls (~40kwH storage) included, which at that point sounds about right at $40k. Still far beyond the reac…

> new roof runs between 5-10k, That is incredibly cheap if so. That would be a roof on a small barn around here.

If you shop around it's abundantly clear that the price of a new roof varies wildly. Some of it is materials. The guy offering 50 year warranty GAF super-premium install who spots loads of potential problems up front and factors them into the cost is going to run much higher. The guy who is just going to hire some rando non-english speaking guys from the 7-11 and toss on the cheapest possible materials without concern about the underlying structure is going to be like a 1/4 of that price.

$5-10k on a median sized single family home is the latter, especially if you're closer to the $5k mark. It is likely that you will have problems with the roof after it is installed, and the warranty is going to be garbage.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#143

Post by SeaDude »

Back of napkin math is:

- 100ft.2 of solar panels (Qty: 5, off the shelf, ~3’ x ~5’ panels) = ~1kW of AC electricity (post-inverter, in low-sun Seattle)

- At the roof, this represents 10 wires and ~8 roof penetrations (racking lags through flashing into rafters)

AKA: simple setup, proven implementation

Questions:

- How many wires (points of failure) are in 100ft.2 of solar shingles?

- How many roof penetrations?

- How many roofer-electricians do you know?

- Why can we not just embrace existing panel technology and put them everywhere, yesterday?

Rant:

- We don’t need boutique renewable energy, we need ubiquitous RE.

- Elon, get your priorities straight. In the three years you’ve been trying to figure out the perfect solar status symbol, you could have installed megawatts of photovoltaics.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#144

Post by nine_k »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #25

> It also lists $33,950 as the price after an $8,550 federal tax incentive. There is something absolutely astonishing about the fact that in America the way we have go about being eco-friendly is to give huge tax breaks to rich people to buy solar panels and electric vehicles. To think with all that money we could build better infrastructure and denser housing. Really boggles the mind.

Building denser housing is problematic not due to lack of money.

Local non-monetary regulations mandate low-rises or single-family houses, huge parking lots, etc. If money could solve that, it may be by spending it on political campaigning, public education, or may be even bribing, to get the regulations out of the way.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#145

Post by jandrese »

gameswithgo wrote: post #82
FlyingAvatar wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly how is that out of the reach of anyone but the wealthy? Amortized over 30 years, it's barely over $110 per month and for most homes would bring the electric bill to near zero.

if you have to pay up front it’s way too hard. loans have interest.

It's hard, but not impossible. Your costs are higher than a traditional power company for 10 or 15 years until the panels are paid off, but then your costs are much lower than people with traditional grid hookup.

In terms of investment it doesn't beat the stock market, but you have the side benefit of killing the planet slightly less. You are also hedged against rate increases from your power company.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#146

Post by cobookman »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #25

> It also lists $33,950 as the price after an $8,550 federal tax incentive. There is something absolutely astonishing about the fact that in America the way we have go about being eco-friendly is to give huge tax breaks to rich people to buy solar panels and electric vehicles. To think with all that money we could build better infrastructure and denser housing. Really boggles the mind.

Not just rich people. Anyone who pays taxes. Its just a tax write off. That's it.

There's lots of other tax write offs.

In California you can get solar installed for free if you are low income.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#147

Post by sigstoat »

navigatesol wrote: post #124
Clubber wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who pay more than $8500 in taxes can benefit from the tax break. I'm not sure I'd consider that rich.

> I'm not sure I'd consider that rich. People who are installing $40,000+ roofs on 2000+ sqft homes are not rich by your standards? Or do you truly believe these panels will "print money"?

every home has a roof, and none of them are cheap to replace. it's a small factor difference in amount you're financing.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#148

Post by mepiethree »

Quequau wrote: post #91

I have a friend in America who has a fairly large PV set up on part of his property. Listening to the all the obstacles he's had to overcome and all the surprising limitations he's saddled with, I can't help but suspect that the power company in his area that he's selling the power to would rather that these sorts of installations simply not exist. Coupling that with the fact that off-peak pricing isn't the norm in a…

The profit model for utility companies is to build new power plants, power lines, and substations, and charge their rate payers for that build ("rate base" it). Then they get a cut of their expense as profit. If too many people build solar, the utility can't build new infrastructure and charge everyone for it. And, they now have to manage balancing solar production with electricity usage, which means hiring new analysts which can't be rate based.

So, of course they are hostile to it. Personal, distributed solar cuts their profits and increases their costs. But, because their profit is based on charging customers for building new electric infrastructure, it lowers the costs for all of their customers when a group of people preempt that by installing solar on their homes.

It is good for everyone when rich people buy solar; the air gets cleaner, and electricity becomes cheaper. So some states, like California, compel them to facilitate solar via tax credits and other regulations.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#149

Post by SeaDude »

adrianmonk wrote: post #122
blurbleblurble wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The masses don't own houses to put these roofs on. Because of concentration of wealth and return on capital exacerbating that concentration. Because of rent seeking pyramid schemes. Which I imagine artificially restricts demand for improvements like solar panel roofs: who has more inventive to invest in things like solar panel roofs? Owner occupants who are in it for the long term, or rent seeking landlords just tryi…

Even if everything you say is true, it still doesn't negate the fact that it's a new technology which is expensive and needs investment in order to bring down the cost. When computers were new, only rich organizations like governments, banks, and large corporations could afford them. Now you can buy a raspberry pi for close to nothing.

Photovoltaics (PV) is not a new technology. It’s been in production-state since the 50’s and powering percentages of some countries for at least the past ~5 years.

Adopt the existing, proven and cost-effective implementation of PV (~3’ x ~5’ aluminum framed panels).

Waiting on Elon to figure out boutique solar so the affluent can all install it first and drive mass adoption (decade?) stalls PV development as much as the US tariff on Chinese-made solar!

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#150

Post by mcot2 »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #25

> It also lists $33,950 as the price after an $8,550 federal tax incentive. There is something absolutely astonishing about the fact that in America the way we have go about being eco-friendly is to give huge tax breaks to rich people to buy solar panels and electric vehicles. To think with all that money we could build better infrastructure and denser housing. Really boggles the mind.

You don’t really have to be “rich” to afford this roof. It’s a totally sensible investment that actually pays for itself between 10-20 years and you can use a loan to finance it. It’s also very sensible for new home construction which is also traditionally financed via a mortgage.
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