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Bill Gates on Windows Usability (2003)

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Re: Bill Gates on Windows Usability (2003)

#151

Post by stinos »

pfranz wrote: post #126
partiallypro wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still to this day people view Windows through the lense of XP experiences. I always wonder how much damage that era did. People claimed to "love" XP, but they are all rose tinted in memory. Everyone hated XP until SP2 and SP3. The Security Center was something everyone hated too. But yeah, some things it did really well, but others not so much. 10 is so much better than people give it credit for, and yes there are st…

I grew up with Windows. My jobs used Unix/Linux and I switched to Mac at home before Vista came out. I got a job using Windows during the Windows 8-10 transition. During that 10 year gap I'd help friends and family setup printers and stuff. I was aghast at the things that hadn't changed in the 10+ years. I really wished I had written it up because I fell back into things quickly. One thing I still remember is how oft…

in Linux it's only when a specific component (like the kernel) gets updated

Fair enugh, but depending on what distro you run that seems to be fairly often as well. Like, more than 'a few times' a year.

Then again if you dont run a server for which downtime is a true loss, or something alike, is rebooting that much of a problem (honest question)?

Re: Bill Gates on Windows Usability (2003)

#152

Post by vbezhenar »

jseliger wrote: post #63
TimTheTinker wrote: post #52

The early 2000's were a period of especially low usability for Microsoft's products. At the time, I had a roommate who was a die-hard Windows user. Over several years, I tried to convince him to switch to Mac OS X, with examples like: (a) Just drag/drop a PDF to a printer spool window, and it will print; (b) to install an app, usually you just have to drag it to the Applications folder; to uninstall it, simply drag i…

This kind of thing also got me to OS X. Now I'm looking at fiascos like the MBA/MBP keyboards, the bug-fests that are x.0 OS updates, and the way Catalina kills 32-bit applications for little reason (that I can discern), and I find myself wondering if I should quit the Mac world.

Try Windows. I migrated from Macbook to Windows PC and I like it. It's far from perfect as everything seems today, but it works for my needs.

Re: Bill Gates on Windows Usability (2003)

#153

Post by thaumasiotes »

FourthProtocol wrote: post #133
jdnenej wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the bugs that are an issue with 10. It's the mountains of nagware, spyware and advertisements built in to it.

I use 10 daily and see no ads. Where does windows 10 show ads?

In the start menu.

Re: Bill Gates on Windows Usability (2003)

#154

Post by burntoutfire »

pishpash wrote: post #115
TimTheTinker wrote: post #52

The early 2000's were a period of especially low usability for Microsoft's products. At the time, I had a roommate who was a die-hard Windows user. Over several years, I tried to convince him to switch to Mac OS X, with examples like: (a) Just drag/drop a PDF to a printer spool window, and it will print; (b) to install an app, usually you just have to drag it to the Applications folder; to uninstall it, simply drag i…

After OS X, has anybody ever switched back to Windows from a Mac OS for daily use (i.e. not for a specific application that is only available on Windows)? I don't even want to look at Windows now. It's so unsightly in a way that you don't notice until you switch away.

I have. OS X and Windows are similarly usable for me, but there are more apps on Windows.

Re: Bill Gates on Windows Usability (2003)

#155

Post by [deleted] »

0x38B wrote: post #60
pwinnski wrote: post #13

Good times. I remember when this was part of the court case. Sounds like what we need is for Tim Cook to try to use iOS 13 and lose access to one of his favorite apps by upgrading to Catalina, and then to get a crumb or something into his keyboard.

...or try using Google Docs in Safari on iOS 13 with a text editor in split view. Two blinking cursors and no easy way to choose which window is active. To enter text in the Google Doc after using my text editor, I have to tap the URL bar twice, dismiss the suggestions, and then it's active. Given that my iPad is my only computer, this release has been really rough. It's getting there, and I'm sure with time it will…

[deleted]

Re: Bill Gates on Windows Usability (2003)

#156

Post by Aeolun »

stinos wrote: post #151
pfranz wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up with Windows. My jobs used Unix/Linux and I switched to Mac at home before Vista came out. I got a job using Windows during the Windows 8-10 transition. During that 10 year gap I'd help friends and family setup printers and stuff. I was aghast at the things that hadn't changed in the 10+ years. I really wished I had written it up because I fell back into things quickly. One thing I still remember is how oft…

in Linux it's only when a specific component (like the kernel) gets updated Fair enugh, but depending on what distro you run that seems to be fairly often as well. Like, more than 'a few times' a year. Then again if you dont run a server for which downtime is a true loss, or something alike, is rebooting that much of a problem (honest question)?

If I have a few tens of applications open that all have their own separate state that is lost on reboot, then it’s fairly annoying to reboot because one thing updated.

Re: Bill Gates on Windows Usability (2003)

#157

Post by DayDollar »

riffraff wrote: post #88
partiallypro wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still to this day people view Windows through the lense of XP experiences. I always wonder how much damage that era did. People claimed to "love" XP, but they are all rose tinted in memory. Everyone hated XP until SP2 and SP3. The Security Center was something everyone hated too. But yeah, some things it did really well, but others not so much. 10 is so much better than people give it credit for, and yes there are st…

People loved XP coming from '98 which was way more prone to crash, BSOD, data losses etc, from what I recall.

I loved that with XP, that you could actually turn the gui back into something WIN98 like- which ment, it was boring, grey and minimal. And thats how i want my gui to be. I dont want some fashionfacista to redesign it to his/her whims. I dont want it to grab my attention for unimportant crap. I want it laying there in the sun, grey, damp and featureless like a new born island. My work has enough excitment and new stuff to focus on- i dont want to be bothered by what other people consider important- security center rages, advertisements and by bothering i ment to be reminded of there existence in any way (that includes gobbling huge amounts of system ressources) - so in XP you could still shut the worst offenders down permanently. It is, and it was for the user who took time to settle in, the perfect system. Everything that came after, is a lovecraftian horror that trys way to much to please a preconcived user- who wants nothing more then to strangle all this unpleasant attempts of servitude.

Re: Bill Gates on Windows Usability (2003)

#158

Post by Aeolun »

gist wrote: post #87
signal11 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is ZERO reason a large company with resources can't make sure that things like this don't happen IMHO, large companies don’t always work in perfect, laser-focused speculation. As a result lots of big companies have competing “pulls” — eg fiefdoms. Interference from investors. New CEOs who are still finding their feet. Lame duck CEOs. Regulatory distractions. In theory a company would be laser focused on custo…

> As a result lots of big companies have competing “pulls” — eg fiefdoms. Exactly. Why? Because they suck plain and simple. My wife (a highly paid and educated professional) just wasted 3 hours today trying to get a simple new cable box installed from Verizon. Earlier she tried to have Best Buy do a simple TV pickup and ended up having to cut her losses cancel Best Buy and just get 800junk to pick it up (at a higher…

Until you cannot remember (and frankly, don’t care about) the names of all your employees any more, I don’t think you can call something a large company.

There is theoretically zero reason why a large company should be so inefficient, but practically that’s always what happens.

Re: Bill Gates on Windows Usability (2003)

#159

Post by gcarvalho »

userbinator wrote: post #128
wayneftw wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you're serious, but > Just drag/drop a PDF to a printer spool window, and it will print; this is just the most obtuse way of doing things. > usually you just have to drag it to the Applications folder; to uninstall it, simply drag it to the trash; So does this, and unreliable as you noted - i.e. usually . But, ugggh... dragging things to other things to do things though? There's a reason why certain l…

I figured out very early on Windows (this was the days of 3.x) that the Alt key could activate the menu and then let you browse the items with the cursor keys, and the underlined letters (which idiotically have been hidden by default more recently) work in combination with Alt to activate UI elements. I couldn't figure out how to do the equivalent in Mac OS. You had to inspect each menu first with the mouse (and hold…

You can press Command+Shift+? to open a search box for the menu items. Not the same thing, but I find it useful sometimes. I also believe you don't need to hold down the mouse button to inspect the menus.

In the end, I'd rate both (Windows nad macOS) as equally painful/unintuitive to use without a mouse.

Re: Bill Gates on Windows Usability (2003)

#160

Post by monkeydreams »

FourthProtocol wrote: post #133
jdnenej wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the bugs that are an issue with 10. It's the mountains of nagware, spyware and advertisements built in to it.

I use 10 daily and see no ads. Where does windows 10 show ads?

If you turn them off you dont see them. It's a dark pattern but not completely black.
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