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Containers in 2019: They're Calling It a Hypervisor Comeback

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Re: Containers in 2019: They're Calling It a Hypervisor Comeback

#3

Post by hinkley »

And let me state again for the record that all of these promises being made by container systems sound an awful lot like the promises I was offered by 'real' operating systems in the early nineties.

I think the only real difference is that there has been a sea change in public opinion on this kind of aggressive isolation by default being worthwhile.

But a hypervisor publishing a bunch of services that talk to the world and each other? Things are beginning to look a bit more like microkernels as time goes on.

Re: Containers in 2019: They're Calling It a Hypervisor Comeback

#6

Post by BiteCode_dev »

hinkley wrote: post #3

And let me state again for the record that all of these promises being made by container systems sound an awful lot like the promises I was offered by 'real' operating systems in the early nineties. I think the only real difference is that there has been a sea change in public opinion on this kind of aggressive isolation by default being worthwhile. But a hypervisor publishing a bunch of services that talk to the wor…

Plus now, the app devs, now all turned devops because talent is scarse and demand is high, get to handle the complexity of concurrency, networking and reliability. This adds to deployment/testing/development setup, and when you change stack or job, the architecture slightly different and you need to learn it all over again.

Funnily enough, we couldn't make the microkernel concept works despite an homogeneous, integrated environment as a basis. But we are fine building frankenstein OS images, hacking multiple graph-shaped systems to make them play together, and call that a success.

Now don't get me wrong, I understand perfectly the benefits of it. But somehow, it feels like we arrived at the right result by the worst possible path, and at a price way higher than it should be.

Re: Containers in 2019: They're Calling It a Hypervisor Comeback

#7

Post by blablabla123 »

> The Docker engine default seccomp profile blocks 44 system calls today, leaving containers running in this default Docker engine configuration with just around 300 syscalls available.

...preventing devs/ops people to run tools like iotop, unless extra capabilities are added.

I'm all in for containers, cgroups/namespaces but at the moment it's namespace isolation for the price of less features. Unless namespaces become first-class citizens in the Linux kernel, it will always be more efficient to just run on VMs or even Bare Metal. At least for non-planet scale workloads. :-)

Re: Containers in 2019: They're Calling It a Hypervisor Comeback

#9

Post by panpanna »

blablabla123 wrote: post #7

> The Docker engine default seccomp profile blocks 44 system calls today, leaving containers running in this default Docker engine configuration with just around 300 syscalls available. ...preventing devs/ops people to run tools like iotop, unless extra capabilities are added. I'm all in for containers, cgroups/namespaces but at the moment it's namespace isolation for the price of less features. Unless namespaces bec…

Namespaces _are_ first class citizens in the kernel.

Have you tried any solutions that are not based on docker?

Re: Containers in 2019: They're Calling It a Hypervisor Comeback

#10

Post by tyingq »

pojntfx wrote: post #4
pjmlp wrote: post #2

Just waiting for the new re-discovery of hypervisors, but with better marketing names.

"Workload Orchestrators" K8s can already do VMs with Kube-virt, so yeah.

K8S is unnecessarily complicated. I fully expect "serverless", warts and all, to take all comers. And, I get the irony. It's basically cgi-bin 2.0. It will win not because it is better, but because it is better "understood".
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