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Gmail marking email from me as spam

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Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#261

Post by digikata »

rapind wrote: post #199
the_pwner224 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google's ML mail spam models are that way because there's too many bad actors. Email, even in 2019, still extremely valuable. Google's spam models freaking suck donkey dick. I use Fastmail but my university uses Google for email. A service we use (Piazza, class Q&A) sends notifications via email. Over the years I have gotten probably about 1k email notifications from them, and replied to a few of them too. Google h…

I'm not defending gmail, but I will say that some users simply suck (unintentionally). I bet some of your peers are just hitting the spam button instead of simply deleting the email, generating a bad reputation for the sender. I've seen this with my SaaS. We ONLY send transactional emails like purchase receipts and login links (using postmark). We're very intentional about not sending anything remotely resembling mar…

What would be nice is a useful mail ML filter which would scan mail flagged spam to trigger a "are you sure this is spam, do you want to delete instead" question.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#262

Post by jlarocco »

irjustin wrote: post #79

I would argue in this narrow case - I would not point to nefarious undercurrents. Google's ML mail spam models are that way because there's too many bad actors. Email, even in 2019, still extremely valuable. If you can get into people's email inbox, there's still quite high conversion rate - better than clicks/videos on a pure percentage basis. Even the author wants to reach out to people in a cold fashion. As a gmai…

> As a gmail user, I 100% appreciate keeping my inbox extremely clean.

That's a silly way to spin this. They can keep your inbox super clean by just not delivering any mail at all.

The way GMail is going, you'll soon only be able to get Google approved corporate spam using their email service. It took them longer, but they're pulling the same shit they did with XMPP. Open and standards compliant to begin with, and slowly converted to a bastardized Google only walled garden.

Maybe now's the time to fix it. If people don't get an email, suggest they use a better service.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#263

Post by criley2 »

carloswilson wrote: post #260

Prior to GMail, we used to check our "Junk" folder occasionally in whatever email service we used. When GMail arrived with its nice spam classification, it was great. Worked well, better than any competitors out there. This gradually conditioned us to ignore the "Spam" directory completely. Now things have moved to the opposite extreme. It is quite difficult to host independent email servers and send emails from it w…

My conspiracy theory is that google intentionally has degraded the ability of spam to be detected.

Why? Google Inbox did it absolutely perfectly. They wrapped up every email, from every major source, into nearly perfect bundles.

You could receive hundreds of unsolicited ("sOlIcItEd") marketing emails a.k.a. spam and Inbox would perfectly roll them into one bundle with a 1 swipe gesture to archive.

Then they killed Inbox and Gmail has functionally no ability to collate spam into a bundle and hide it.

That's intentional. Email marketing is huge, and google has a massive vested interest in ensuring that gmail users can see advertisements.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#264

Post by fortran77 »

This is truly a severe problem, and I've given up trying to fix it. I don't run my own mail servers anymore. I have an Outlook business account. Microsoft is big enough that google doesn't mess with their email.

I sort of understand why Google does this--probably 95% of email from random mail servers are spam! But that doesn't make it right.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#265

Post by c3534l »

I see most people saying Google errs too much on the side of its spam," but it strikes me as better for everyone that spam never get through so as to incentivize people not to send spam, thereby destroying most spam before it even makes it to your spam box. You can always check your spam box, so its just a mild inconvenience mbst of the time. If you're expecting an email, you can whitelist the sender. If you're sending email to someone who isn't suspecting it, then maybe you need to take a moment out to think about whether you're spamming people's inboxes with emails they don't want.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#266

Post by luckylion »

rapind wrote: post #199
the_pwner224 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google's ML mail spam models are that way because there's too many bad actors. Email, even in 2019, still extremely valuable. Google's spam models freaking suck donkey dick. I use Fastmail but my university uses Google for email. A service we use (Piazza, class Q&A) sends notifications via email. Over the years I have gotten probably about 1k email notifications from them, and replied to a few of them too. Google h…

I'm not defending gmail, but I will say that some users simply suck (unintentionally). I bet some of your peers are just hitting the spam button instead of simply deleting the email, generating a bad reputation for the sender. I've seen this with my SaaS. We ONLY send transactional emails like purchase receipts and login links (using postmark). We're very intentional about not sending anything remotely resembling mar…

> I'm not defending gmail, but I will say that some users simply suck (unintentionally). I bet some of your peers are just hitting the spam button instead of simply deleting the email, generating a bad reputation for the sender.

Google does put some senders often into spam for me, but not always. I'm absolutely sure I've never reported them as spam, on the contrary: I've marked their emails as "Not Spam" when I caught them in the spam folder.

That had, so far, no influence on the filter. Those aren't "weird" emails either, they are in my language and individual communication, not mass mails.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#267

Post by Moru »

natch wrote: post #159
Moru wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a normal gmail user you won't notice this, all you see is that you get mail from your friends that you always mailed with. If you register on popular sites, their mail will also work. If however you are sitting on a new domain, sending mail to an old friend on gmail, it will very likely end up in the spam folder unless you are using a big provider that has reputation with google already. I guess it's another case…

If you never look in your spam folder you’ll never notice how utterly bad it is. Which is apparently the case for most people.

A lot of people don't even know there is a spam folder

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#268

Post by mistahenry »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #200

Although the post is about self-hosted mail, I wouldn't be surprised to learn something fairly major changed in Google's spam filter a couple of weeks ago. We use Google Apps (i.e. Gmail) and two weeks ago one of my co-workers noticed that another co-worker's emails were going to spam. Even though we're sending/receiving within the one GApps domain. Upon investigation I discovered that one co-workers emails were inde…

It was two weeks ago when I started suddenly having delivery problems (ie consistently delivered to the spam folder) for emails sent from SES from AWS.

It’s very obvious to me now when reading these replies that Google changed their spam filtering and it’s affecting many more than just me

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#269

Post by jiveturkey »

sdan wrote: post #8

Google's making us play by their rules: 1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam. 2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. 3. Don't use Google Webmaster or use AMPs? Good luck finding your page on the 1st page. 4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized. Obviously some alternatives are moving to Fastmail and using Duck Duck Go, but we need Google to stop this "my way…

> but we need Google to stop this "my way or you don't exist" attitude

I think that's exactly opposite. We need more competition, not forcing a private company to behave in some way that "we" (and who is "we"?) find acceptable.

It's time to break them up.

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