Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study • Hacker News Board

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#201

Post by k__ » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:54 PM UTC

reroute1 wrote: post #184

k__ wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, most of the time the side I was getting was the side of the story my male friends told me. But for the last 5-10 years I also got the side of my female partners. Sometimes even both sides in parallel, because my partners would date my friends.

OK so you have no more information than anyone else? We all have friends who talk about relationships and its all anecdata. Not to mention you have a very specific group of open and non-standard people which could give a very different selection of behaviors than the normal population.

And?

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#202

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 3:55 PM UTC

astine wrote: post #161

manifestsilence wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a trend, it's an increase in scientific understanding. Language is fluid, or we would all be speaking some variant of old German on this forum (try reading Beowulf in the original). It's not grammar, it's semantics. Words are social. When one person tries to rewrite the meaning of a word, unless they have significant social clout they are just going to be misunderstood. When many people rewrite the meaning o…

The problem with this argument is that you are using descriptivist reasoning ("Language is fluid", "Words are social.") to support a prescriptivist conclusion ("There's no such thing as a 'biological gender.'") If historically 'gender' and 'sex' were mostly synonymous but recently people have decided to use the words differently then that's fine, but it doesn't make it wrong for people to still use the words the old…

> If historically 'gender' and 'sex' were mostly synonymous but recently people have decided to use the words differently then that's fine, but it doesn't make it wrong for people to still use the words the old way.

But using the phrase “biological gender” isn't using them in the old way: the way in which they were synonymous is in reference to a idea which conflated sex, gender identity, and socially ascribed gender. If one wants to refer to that meaning, there's really no reason to prefer one or the other, though either will be unclear to many modern audiences without additional explanation referencing the outmoded concept being invoked, because the concept being referred to has lost currency.

But if one is discussing the separated concepts, then one cannot honestly use “sex” for the sociological or psychological components or “gender” for the biological component and say it is the “old way”, as the old way doesn't recognize the there being separate components.

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#203

Post by krapp » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 4:04 PM UTC

shantly wrote: post #198

krapp wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone wants you to refer to them as $GENDER, then just refer to them as $GENDER. Don't treat people differently because they don't conform to the traditional gender binary. Don't treat attraction between the same sex as being fundamentally different than attraction between opposite sexes. That's 99.9% of it, right there.

I don't even mean pronouns. I mean the stuff like elsewhere in this thread where people are stepping in it (depending on the perspective of the reader) re: whether gender identity is wholly a social construct. "Yeah, it's entirely social" is no longer the safe fallback answer for careful liberals (I write, as a careful liberal)

I think you have to accept that gender identity is a contentious issue for a lot of people, even among the liberal/feminist/LGBTQ set, so any possible position you take is probably going to offend someone.

So just be honest and try to be polite, that's the best you can ever do. Whether or not you claim that gender is "entirely social" should depend on what you believe, not what you think the safe answer is.

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#204

Post by manifestsilence » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 4:06 PM UTC

astine wrote: post #161

manifestsilence wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a trend, it's an increase in scientific understanding. Language is fluid, or we would all be speaking some variant of old German on this forum (try reading Beowulf in the original). It's not grammar, it's semantics. Words are social. When one person tries to rewrite the meaning of a word, unless they have significant social clout they are just going to be misunderstood. When many people rewrite the meaning o…

The problem with this argument is that you are using descriptivist reasoning ("Language is fluid", "Words are social.") to support a prescriptivist conclusion ("There's no such thing as a 'biological gender.'") If historically 'gender' and 'sex' were mostly synonymous but recently people have decided to use the words differently then that's fine, but it doesn't make it wrong for people to still use the words the old…

It can become wrong to use words the old way. Try throwing a "fag" on the fire...

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#205

Post by krapp » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

TallGuyShort wrote: post #196

krapp wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing sex with gender. Sex is biological, gender is cultural, albeit often correlated with biology. For instance - it was once considered perfectly masculine behavior for men to wear pantyhose, high heels and makeup, and to kiss each another on the mouth. Now, those traits would likely be considered feminine (or at least, not masculine.) Does that mean men were formerly somehow more biologically female, be…

No, I very intentionally never used the word sex, because everything I mentioned was gender. My concern is when stuff that is entirely social (okay, let's keep calling that gender) starts getting codified or labelled, and I'm still confused why we have discrete labels for things that, according to many of the same people using the most labels, are a completely fluid spectrum. I'm okay with completely fluid spectrum,…

>and I'm still confused why we have discrete labels for things that, according to many of the same people using the most labels, are a completely fluid spectrum.

Visible light is a spectrum, yet we still use labels for distinct colors, despite "color" being arbitrary (a "social construct".) Labels can still be useful for communicating concepts and establishing a common ground, even if they're imprecise, or if different cultures don't even agree on the difference between "blue" and "green."

>Do a Ctrl+F of the linked article for "Gender" and "Sex" and then tell me that the research isn't also confused because everyone is confused all of the time, especially people who are "confused".

Everyone isn't confused all the time. People do disagree, though, and society is still working out just what gender means in the modern day.

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#206

Post by throwaway66920 » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #176

throwaway66920 wrote: post #72

> Second, there may be gender differences in the perceived causes of breakups. Women blame their male partners more often for breakups than men blame their female partners (Choo et al., 1996). In addition, women more frequently report problematic partner behaviors as the reason for a breakup, such as infidelity, substance abuse, and mental or physical abuse (Amato & Previti, 2003; Morris, Reiber, & Roman, 2015). Men,…

Not to mention a lot of guys won't break up with someone when they want to, but will instead do things to get the person to dump them.

I’m not sure this varies by gender

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#207

Post by astine » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

manifestsilence wrote: post #204

astine wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this argument is that you are using descriptivist reasoning ("Language is fluid", "Words are social.") to support a prescriptivist conclusion ("There's no such thing as a 'biological gender.'") If historically 'gender' and 'sex' were mostly synonymous but recently people have decided to use the words differently then that's fine, but it doesn't make it wrong for people to still use the words the old…

It can become wrong to use words the old way. Try throwing a "fag" on the fire...

Thousands of people in Britain put 'fags' in their mouth everyday. People understand your meaning through context.

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#208

Post by astine » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #202

astine wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this argument is that you are using descriptivist reasoning ("Language is fluid", "Words are social.") to support a prescriptivist conclusion ("There's no such thing as a 'biological gender.'") If historically 'gender' and 'sex' were mostly synonymous but recently people have decided to use the words differently then that's fine, but it doesn't make it wrong for people to still use the words the old…

> If historically 'gender' and 'sex' were mostly synonymous but recently people have decided to use the words differently then that's fine, but it doesn't make it wrong for people to still use the words the old way. But using the phrase “biological gender” isn't using them in the old way: the way in which they were synonymous is in reference to a idea which conflated sex, gender identity, and socially ascribed gender…

"But using the phrase “biological gender” isn't using them in the old way: the way in which they were synonymous is in reference to a idea which conflated sex, gender identity, and socially ascribed gender."

You just contradicted yourself. If the term 'gender' conflates several ideas, and adding the term 'biological' distinguishes them, then the previous poster hasn't changed the meaning of the word 'gender'. He's incorporated the new understanding but adapted the older language. Either way, the mere fact that nearly every person reading this understood his meaning shows that his expression was adequate to express his meaning.

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#209

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

throwaway66920 wrote: post #94

scarmig wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, society ascribes agency to men in a way it doesn't to women, and so men are less likely to blame external factors or expect support.

That doesn’t mesh with my anecdata nor data on the proportion of housework women handle. But I do think the blame comment has merit.

[deleted]

Re: Men View Their Ex-Partners More Favorably Than Women Do: Study

#210

Post by conanbatt » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

lazyasciiart wrote: post #158

conanbatt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is nothing innate to the human on Gender identity, if its purely a construct, then you can engage in full repression of gender identities with no consequences.

Weird, doesn't seem to work that way with religion.

Religion is an organization. Gender identity is an individual concept.