Australia’s Darling River is running dry • Hacker News Board

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#21

Post by cannonedhamster » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 1:35 PM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #18

vidanay wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it dry up during the "dry" season as could be reasonably expected for a river in a desert region? What is the current situation? Is it dry during the "wet" season?

These are questions you'd expect the article about the river to answer.

The article really does a poor job at showing the actual mismanagement of the river ecosystem. Other sources cover active steps that humans have taken which have caused major damage to the flow rates and resiliency systems that nature had in place.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#22

Post by Fricken » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

corebit wrote: post #14

This article is a perfect example of why the climate change issue is so polarized - it's just so full of propaganda and lies that the important truth it talks about is glossed over with mistrust. "Reduced to a string of stagnant mustard-coloured pools, fouled in places with pesticide runoff and stinking with the rotting carcasses of cattle and fish, the Darling River is running dry." This river runs dry regularly and…

Your comment is an even better example of why the climate change issue is so polarized, because the article made no mention of climate change, yet you were triggered by it anyhow.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#23

Post by libraryatnight » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 1:38 PM UTC

corebit wrote: post #14

This article is a perfect example of why the climate change issue is so polarized - it's just so full of propaganda and lies that the important truth it talks about is glossed over with mistrust. "Reduced to a string of stagnant mustard-coloured pools, fouled in places with pesticide runoff and stinking with the rotting carcasses of cattle and fish, the Darling River is running dry." This river runs dry regularly and…

So you vote against action on climate change because you're worried people believe the wrong thing? Even if what they believe is wrong, isn't climate change mitigation still a win? Cleaner air, less reliance on non-renewable energy, etc, seem like fine goals regardless of whether or not it turns out the straights are as dire as we think (though, your issues with this particular article aside, there's plenty of evidence to merit concern)?

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#24

Post by computerex » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 1:38 PM UTC

corebit wrote: post #14

This article is a perfect example of why the climate change issue is so polarized - it's just so full of propaganda and lies that the important truth it talks about is glossed over with mistrust. "Reduced to a string of stagnant mustard-coloured pools, fouled in places with pesticide runoff and stinking with the rotting carcasses of cattle and fish, the Darling River is running dry." This river runs dry regularly and…

Even if what you say is true, one sensationalized article does not mean that the entire climate change issue is hyperbole. The fact is that climate change is a real problem with potentially catastrophic outcome for the human specie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping_points_in_the_climate_...

When the stakes are so high, where we are literally risking the future of the human race, I'd definitely lean towards the side of action and change even if they sensationalize some facts sometimes in order to motivate change in others.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#25

Post by richmarr » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 1:40 PM UTC

corebit wrote: post #14

This article is a perfect example of why the climate change issue is so polarized - it's just so full of propaganda and lies that the important truth it talks about is glossed over with mistrust. "Reduced to a string of stagnant mustard-coloured pools, fouled in places with pesticide runoff and stinking with the rotting carcasses of cattle and fish, the Darling River is running dry." This river runs dry regularly and…

> I personally am concerned about my impact on the environment, but I consistently vote against collective action because articles like this make me really afraid of how crazy people are and what nonsense they'll believe.

On what basis do you think your vote will change other peoples beliefs?

Vote differently please.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#26

Post by ceejayoz » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 1:41 PM UTC

computerex wrote: post #24

corebit wrote: post #14

This article is a perfect example of why the climate change issue is so polarized - it's just so full of propaganda and lies that the important truth it talks about is glossed over with mistrust. "Reduced to a string of stagnant mustard-coloured pools, fouled in places with pesticide runoff and stinking with the rotting carcasses of cattle and fish, the Darling River is running dry." This river runs dry regularly and…

Even if what you say is true, one sensationalized article does not mean that the entire climate change issue is hyperbole. The fact is that climate change is a real problem with potentially catastrophic outcome for the human specie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping_points_in_the_climate_... When the stakes are so high, where we are literally risking the future of the human race, I'd definitely lean towards the s…

It's not even a sensationalized article.

It doesn't blame anything on climate change. It just says this:

> ... residents blame the government for exacerbating the drought by drawing down river water in 2017 for irrigation and other uses downstream.

That's it - the only mention of human fault in the entire thing.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#27

Post by missosoup » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 1:41 PM UTC

computerex wrote: post #24

corebit wrote: post #14

This article is a perfect example of why the climate change issue is so polarized - it's just so full of propaganda and lies that the important truth it talks about is glossed over with mistrust. "Reduced to a string of stagnant mustard-coloured pools, fouled in places with pesticide runoff and stinking with the rotting carcasses of cattle and fish, the Darling River is running dry." This river runs dry regularly and…

Even if what you say is true, one sensationalized article does not mean that the entire climate change issue is hyperbole. The fact is that climate change is a real problem with potentially catastrophic outcome for the human specie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping_points_in_the_climate_... When the stakes are so high, where we are literally risking the future of the human race, I'd definitely lean towards the s…

I don't think GP is saying that climate change itself is hyperbole.

The problem is that reporting on both sides is garbage laden with misunderstandings and outright lies. This fuels the anti-climate movement, especially when it's coming from the 'pro' side like in this case.

I've been ringing bells about catastrophic climate change since the early 00s after being involved in a relevant research project, I'm the polar opposite of a denier, but the way that even 'pro climate change' media covers the topic is harmful to actually conveying it to the public because the media wants to put hyperbole on everything.

When the media over-stimulates the public by exaggerating every little thing to a BIG DEAL, the public becomes non-responsive to actual BIG DEAL issues.

This actively hinders action to manage catastrophic climate change. This is the same as the CIA handbook tactic to redirect activist movements to ineffective causes so that they're too activism-fatigued to act on an effective cause when one is presented.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#28

Post by ehnto » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 1:43 PM UTC

computerex wrote: post #24

corebit wrote: post #14

This article is a perfect example of why the climate change issue is so polarized - it's just so full of propaganda and lies that the important truth it talks about is glossed over with mistrust. "Reduced to a string of stagnant mustard-coloured pools, fouled in places with pesticide runoff and stinking with the rotting carcasses of cattle and fish, the Darling River is running dry." This river runs dry regularly and…

Even if what you say is true, one sensationalized article does not mean that the entire climate change issue is hyperbole. The fact is that climate change is a real problem with potentially catastrophic outcome for the human specie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping_points_in_the_climate_... When the stakes are so high, where we are literally risking the future of the human race, I'd definitely lean towards the s…

They aren't suggesting climate change is hyperbole, they're suggesting that the reason many people are able to dismiss climate change is because articles like this reek of sensationalism. In otherwords, in an attempt to get people to listen, they are turning people away as readers can pick up on the hyperbole and feel they're being manipulated.

If instead we spoke about the issue factually, to the point and without trying to influence people's opinions with emotional devices, more stubborn people might listen to the idea.

It's a shame, because if ever there were a real enough reason for an evangelical to scream in the streets at strangers that the world is ending, this might be it. But it doesn't work, people don't listen to the screaming crazies.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#29

Post by enriquto » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 1:48 PM UTC

computerex wrote: post #24

corebit wrote: post #14

This article is a perfect example of why the climate change issue is so polarized - it's just so full of propaganda and lies that the important truth it talks about is glossed over with mistrust. "Reduced to a string of stagnant mustard-coloured pools, fouled in places with pesticide runoff and stinking with the rotting carcasses of cattle and fish, the Darling River is running dry." This river runs dry regularly and…

Even if what you say is true, one sensationalized article does not mean that the entire climate change issue is hyperbole. The fact is that climate change is a real problem with potentially catastrophic outcome for the human specie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping_points_in_the_climate_... When the stakes are so high, where we are literally risking the future of the human race, I'd definitely lean towards the s…

> When the stakes are so high, where we are literally risking the future of the human race, I'd definitely lean towards the side of action and change even if they sensationalize some facts sometimes in order to motivate change in others.

I find this behavior deeply hypocritical and irresponsible. Worse, it is unproductive, because even a minimal sensationalization may trigger a lot of misguided (but sincere) opposition from climate deniers. Heck, even many rational people may be alienated by this!

As a matter of principle, I am disgusted by propaganda that contains falsehoods or exaggerations, even when it is for a good cause.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#30

Post by ehnto » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

nshepperd wrote: post #19

ehnto wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's agriculture and industry that use the water up stream, for this particular issue. Drought in other areas not on the river can be an issue of local water management. Charging people in cities more for water for example, doesn't solve the problem. But for people in smaller, non-metro towns, drought policies are important because they often don't have external supplies.

Yes, so charge agriculture and industry more.

I imagine the prices would just flow on to the consumer. I would personally prefer water usage regulation, that's something we can pretty easily do since we already meter it to charge for it. If you just raise the prices, there's no guarantee it would actually lower water usage enough to help.