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Earliest known draft of the King James Bible discovered

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Re: Earliest known draft of the King James Bible discovered

#211
post #161
post #105

Besides oil, what else has mankind killed each other over as much as religion? Edit: sensitive ass down voters that can’t ack their own bigoted bullshit. I was force fed the Bible for years. Read that shit, or “interpret it” as you will. It’s all contradictory bullshit. If god is so infallible why does his word change between versions? How can _you_ interpret it differently? Maybe because it was written but a bunch o…

Please keep religious flamewar off HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

How about keep religion off HN?

Re: Earliest known draft of the King James Bible discovered

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"reasoning, order, and logic" still make sense to me because I believe in theistic evolution - evolution is basically a tool that God used to get us where we are today. There is also Pandeism (where basically God ceased to exist because he became the universe). Scott Adam's book God Debris touches on this. FYI, (I'm not Catholic, but) the Catholic Church today holds that view that Science explains the how, and Religi…

Logos comes from the stoics also.

Thats not correct, anthough many stoics adopted the common term. Its akin saying 'vibrations' today.

What is the cirlejerk around stoicism these days? Is life for coders really that bad?

Re: Earliest known draft of the King James Bible discovered

#213
post #5

The Douay-Rheims is actually a decade or two older and the first English translation, if memory serves.

My mother has a copy of the "Breeches" (Geneva) bible, first published in 1557 (sure, hers is a reprint from 1607, regular folk could never afford a first edition). The Douay-Rheims translation was published in 1582.

The King James version might be considered definitive by many, but it's nowhere close to the first English translation. In fact, King James' version was less popular than the Geneva bible and wasn't selling well until His Majesty banned the competition and punished those caught with a copy.

The famous refugees that migrated from England to America in 1620 on the Mayflower carried Geneva bibles, not King James bibles.

Re: Earliest known draft of the King James Bible discovered

#214
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such as? I'm struggling to imaging something recorded in this draft that is useful, and not already known? A lot of timeless wisdom is also obvious.

> A lot of timeless wisdom is also obvious. As another commenter said, it seems obvious to you because it's been incorporated into our culture. For instance, I lived in Turkey for a few months, and I had a Turkish roommate who was a devout Muslim. He gave me an English translation of the Qur'an to read, and I gave him a Turkish translation of the New Testament. He decided he would come and show me the places where it…

What did he suggest was changed about it?

Re: Earliest known draft of the King James Bible discovered

#215
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure one can find "lots of timeless wisdom" in the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Norse Prose Edda and Poetic Edda, the Necronomicon, etc., etc.

Yes. But the Necronomicon is one of two things (depending on what you're talking about): A fictional grimoire, or a piece of fiction (a hoax, even).

I know, throwing that in was my lame attempt at humor. :-)

Re: Earliest known draft of the King James Bible discovered

#216
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of timeless wisdom is also obvious. As another commenter said, it seems obvious to you because it's been incorporated into our culture. For instance, I lived in Turkey for a few months, and I had a Turkish roommate who was a devout Muslim. He gave me an English translation of the Qur'an to read, and I gave him a Turkish translation of the New Testament. He decided he would come and show me the places where it…

What did he suggest was changed about it?

So this is literally 20 years ago now (plus or minus a month) we had this conversation, and I'm not sure I 100% understood what he thought even then.

What he said was something like that Islam says that when you're attacked, you should be strong defend yourself; and maybe let the other person know that you're not weak. So I guess he thought that this contradicted what Allah said elsewhere (through Mohammed), and therefore couldn't have been said by Jesus (since Jesus also spoke for Allah); and so must have been added in by someone later.

(To be clear, trying to repeat what I remember he said, not making any claims about what Islam does or doesn't teach.)

The thing is, the whole reason Jesus' statement stands out is because it does contradict our natural ideas about the right way to react. I can understand someone adding in fake stories about miracles or fake claims to be divine; but why would you add in fake teaching that's so counter-intuitive -- and on the face of it, so... pathetic?

His question honestly caught me off-guard; I was expecting him to bring up claims of Jesus' divinity, or his death and resurrection. "Turn the other cheek" is so firmly established in our culture as one template for "how good religious people behave" (a la Ned Flanders from the Simpsons) that it wouldn't have occurred to me that people would consider it "false teaching".

And because I was caught off-guard, I didn't ask him how he thought it came to be that way in the first place. Probably he hadn't thought that far. :-)

Re: Earliest known draft of the King James Bible discovered

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"reasoning, order, and logic" still make sense to me because I believe in theistic evolution - evolution is basically a tool that God used to get us where we are today. There is also Pandeism (where basically God ceased to exist because he became the universe). Scott Adam's book God Debris touches on this. FYI, (I'm not Catholic, but) the Catholic Church today holds that view that Science explains the how, and Religi…

> I believe everyone should be open-minded and respectful That would be probably the biggest improvement for mankind since inventions of fire and wheel, but we're unfortunately often far from there. As an atheist/agnostic, the amount of crap I had to (and sometimes still have to) go through is significant. Almost all religious people interact with me in fashion of 'oh-you-lost-foolish-boy-who-doesn't-get-the-one-and-…

I'm sorry about your experiences.

I think being offended about stuff and judging people isn't exclusive to religion though.

I do wish that everyone would become more intelligent and thus nicer to each other (I believe if people were more intelligent, they would realize they would be better off if they were nicer), but then again, I think humans are inherently flawed and thus we'll still have problems, just of a different variety.

Oh well. We have to make the best of what we can while we're here.

Re: Earliest known draft of the King James Bible discovered

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is almost impossible to imagine that the writings of any long-lived society would not have ample quantities of "timeless wisdom". In fact it would be striking and unusual if it were otherwise. Much wisdom can be difficult to stumble upon but is self-evident once known. Long-lived societies are sure to import all such wisdom from around them, then discover more for themselves over time.

You're right; the main way that the bible (and by extension religion) is important in this regard is that it's survived, in various forms, for as long as it has. I kinda believe you need a religion to preserve knowledge and wisdom like this for so long. I mean tangentially related, a while ago there was an article about how to safeguard nuclear waste storage for the next 100.000 years; one suggestion was to create a…

Religion was certainly an effective carrier for stories prior to the age of the printing press. Unfortunately most religions lose the ability to adapt and error correct, which means that they end up stalling progress as surely as they preserve it.

Re: Earliest known draft of the King James Bible discovered

#219
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But to be fair, this is the discovery of an earlier draft of a translation of a book. It's not exactly a cultural moment that directly intersects secular life like all of the examples you have cited above.

The King James Bible is a classic of English literature and history. It has intersected massively with secular life for centuries.

Good point.

Re: Earliest known draft of the King James Bible discovered

#220
post #164

Could someone please explain to a non-English speaker why is it considered correct (in non-religious context, as many of the commenters here do) to write "the bible" instead of "the Bible" and "new testament" instead of "New Testament"? Aren't they proper names of the books? We don't say "the art of computer programming" instead of "The Art of Computer Programming" when we reference Donald Knuth's book, do we? Looks…

Because this is an informal context and capital letters aren't all that meaningful in english It wouldn't be weird at all to say "the art of computer programming by donald knuth"

It would be incorrect, but it would not be weird because we have unfortunately gotten lazy in our writing.
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