Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Steve Wozniak says he does not expect fully autonomous cars 'in my lifetime'

nbcnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 47 posts

Re: Steve Wozniak says he does not expect fully autonomous cars 'in my lifetime'

#21

Post by jdsully »

yumraj wrote: post #19
aeternum wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Car insurance can work exactly like it currently does. The car owner's insurance is liable by default, however if the car itself is in some way at fault (performing out-of-spec), then the insurance company goes after the car company. This can already happen if something like brakes fail or accelerator gets stuck. 2 & 3) Yes there are some edge cases that you can't train for, but same with humans. What do humans do…

Car insurance: I had made a simplified argument, but to itemize, auto insurance may work the same for auto-theft and some liability coverage. But, it definitely cannot work the same for anything remotely related to driver (or in this case self-driving system's) fault. Edge Cases: Humans use their brain and adapt. Self driving systems have no concept of adapting, hence the result is undefined. > over 1.25 million deat…

> But, it definitely cannot work the same for anything remotely related to driver (or in this case self-driving system's) fault.

Why not?

Re: Steve Wozniak says he does not expect fully autonomous cars 'in my lifetime'

#22

Post by rsj_hn »

shsjxjbsbs wrote: post #14
ozten wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ML made it actually as good as a human being How ML made it usable in some cases, would be more accurate. I still can't ask Alexa to play specific albums or tracks most of the time. I don't want that level of accuracy driving cars on the road.

Google seems to have no trouble playing music from Spotify for me. It can even manage it while I yell my song requests from the shower.

The only thing I have ever wanted from phone assistants is to tell me whether a coffee shop was open or not, or what the closing time is. I still can't get this info, nor is this question understood. I still have to stop, launch a browser, navigate to the site, and dig around their website for opening hours, or in the worst case find a phone number and call to ask them.

Re: Steve Wozniak says he does not expect fully autonomous cars 'in my lifetime'

#23

Post by mac01021 »

todaysAI wrote: post #4

I agree, not because of technical issues but because we will never be able to get past the 'Trolley Problem'.

The trolley problem is not relevant because an autonomous vehicle should never put itself in a position where it might drive into anything.

Re: Steve Wozniak says he does not expect fully autonomous cars 'in my lifetime'

#24

Post by adriftincode »

rsj_hn wrote: post #22
shsjxjbsbs wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google seems to have no trouble playing music from Spotify for me. It can even manage it while I yell my song requests from the shower.

The only thing I have ever wanted from phone assistants is to tell me whether a coffee shop was open or not, or what the closing time is. I still can't get this info, nor is this question understood. I still have to stop, launch a browser, navigate to the site, and dig around their website for opening hours, or in the worst case find a phone number and call to ask them.

What phone assistants are you using? I’ve never had this problem.

Re: Steve Wozniak says he does not expect fully autonomous cars 'in my lifetime'

#25

Post by todaysAI »

mac01021 wrote: post #23
todaysAI wrote: post #4

I agree, not because of technical issues but because we will never be able to get past the 'Trolley Problem'.

The trolley problem is not relevant because an autonomous vehicle should never put itself in a position where it might drive into anything.

Tires burst, kids run out in traffic, human drivers make mistakes, bad weather happens...

Re: Steve Wozniak says he does not expect fully autonomous cars 'in my lifetime'

#26

Post by yumraj »

jdsully wrote: post #21
yumraj wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car insurance: I had made a simplified argument, but to itemize, auto insurance may work the same for auto-theft and some liability coverage. But, it definitely cannot work the same for anything remotely related to driver (or in this case self-driving system's) fault. Edge Cases: Humans use their brain and adapt. Self driving systems have no concept of adapting, hence the result is undefined. > over 1.25 million deat…

> But, it definitely cannot work the same for anything remotely related to driver (or in this case self-driving system's) fault. Why not?

Because I'm not the one driving the car, I'm merely sitting in it.

Think of it this way, do you take auto insurance for a cab ride, no you don't, because you're not driving it.

Re: Steve Wozniak says he does not expect fully autonomous cars 'in my lifetime'

#27

Post by jdsully »

yumraj wrote: post #26
jdsully wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, it definitely cannot work the same for anything remotely related to driver (or in this case self-driving system's) fault. Why not?

Because I'm not the one driving the car, I'm merely sitting in it. Think of it this way, do you take auto insurance for a cab ride, no you don't, because you're not driving it.

That all depends on the contract with whatever service your using. It would be totally legal for the cab driver to make you sign a contract making you liable for any damages. I'd be very unlikely to sign for a cab ride, but I might if I had my own self driving car depending on how reliable they were.

Re: Steve Wozniak says he does not expect fully autonomous cars 'in my lifetime'

#28

Post by yumraj »

jdsully wrote: post #27
yumraj wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I'm not the one driving the car, I'm merely sitting in it. Think of it this way, do you take auto insurance for a cab ride, no you don't, because you're not driving it.

That all depends on the contract with whatever service your using. It would be totally legal for the cab driver to make you sign a contract making you liable for any damages. I'd be very unlikely to sign for a cab ride, but I might if I had my own self driving car depending on how reliable they were.

Anything is possible.

My topmost comment said these are open questions, as in undefined.

I, as in IMHO, highly doubt it would be like you're describing, but it is equally likely that it may be like how you're describing, it's just an open question.

In fact, a couple of years ago there was a small event at Tim Draper's Draper University in San Mateo about how auto insurance would look in the world of self-driving cars and it was very clear that at least till that point there was no consensus. I haven't seen anything to suggest if that has changed since then.

Re: Steve Wozniak says he does not expect fully autonomous cars 'in my lifetime'

#29

Post by mac01021 »

todaysAI wrote: post #25
mac01021 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trolley problem is not relevant because an autonomous vehicle should never put itself in a position where it might drive into anything.

Tires burst, kids run out in traffic, human drivers make mistakes, bad weather happens...

And an autonomous vehicle should drive so that, whichever of those things happens, it will not drive into anything.

This may mean that the car drives rather slowly when the treeline is close to the road, or extremely slowly when the road is slick or foggy. But it can be done.

Re: Steve Wozniak says he does not expect fully autonomous cars 'in my lifetime'

#30

Post by m463 »

aedanman wrote: post #9

Is this because he doesn't expect to live much longer? He is an overweight 69 year old.

Woz aside, I don't think people realize the increased mortality of being on the upper end of the (literal) scale.

Here's a journal article:

https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/jo...

but to summarize BMI vs years lost:

  BMI   40-45  45-50  50-55  55-60
  men   -6.5   -10.8  -10.6  -17.0
  women -6.9    -9.1  -10.3  -13.1
Post reply on HN